If you wish to take something out of the game that can be challenging/difficult/pain in the ass, there should be an inherent penalty for doing so.
You are taking risk out of the equation. For doing so, a consequence of some type should be enforced.
So where is the penalty for the Default league, or the HC league. Obviously everyone should be playing in cutt-throat. Everyone should also be forced into groups.
Also, a copy-paste from before because no one seems to want to address the bigger problems FFA causes.
Spoiler
The people that are saying only FFA should be in the game should go and install and play through D2 again on bnet right now.
The exact same problems FFA causes for D2 will be in POE.
The first one being that you are stuck in specific builds/classes if you actually want to get loot. For D2 your first character is pretty much mandatory to be a Sorc (Due to high mobility from teleport) if you actually want to get items in any timely manner. I feel that it will be similar in POE where if you want to play public games and competitively get loot you are required to have a high mobility and durable build.
The second thing is bots, namely pick-it bots. If you really think 18 people http://www.grindinggear.com/?page=staff (Who most only have Bachelors and half of them are artists and other misc positions) can come up with some sophisticated anti-bot code you are delusional. The current loot system encourages using scripts/bots to parse and grab loot from other players. Something as simple as having loot options other then FFA would put a complete halt to pick-it bots in public games. Sure this doesn't stop all botting, but it would stop the ones that are more damaging to the game (the ones in public games).
If you need any proof of these problems, again just log onto D2 bnet and join a public game, 99% of them are going to be bots or people using pick-it.
Good luck getting a well thought through answer.
So far all i read is excuses. :(
I even tried logic but it was ignored.
If you wish to take something out of the game that can be challenging/difficult/pain in the ass, there should be an inherent penalty for doing so.
Example: Avg fusings ->6L is 300. If you wish to not gamble, and use a recipe, that recipe would be 1000+. You are paying a penalty for not gambling.
Why it's related: Those who say they never get any loot in pubs. If you got 100%/x in an instanced system. There should be a penalty involved, since you are 100% going to get something, which may not have been the case the other way.
You are taking risk out of the equation. For doing so, a consequence of some type should be enforced.
why? I still don't understand why its so important that an option is unacceptable to you. We can have our cake and eat it too you know. no one cares about how hard it is to get a 6L because its the same for everyone so really its a completely different situation. I understand the point your trying to make but its irrelevant as this problem has a completely different dynamic. So instead of alienating people unnecessarily give them the options they want everyone's happy everyone wins. please explain how a compromise will negatively impact your experience if you can still play with FFA loot all you want. out of all this arguing you all seem to froget we can have it both ways so why not?
The penalty for what? Im not sure I understand your question? There's different types of penalties in both.
Die in SC->15% less xp
Die in HC-> SC.
If you always ninja in both, few people will become friends with you. Trading can become a.hassle if you're known for being an asshole.
Further, using the example of D2s ots and/or pickit scripts is moot. As its against the ToS and a bannable offense.
As for the "stuck in builds" statement. This leads me to my point about the consequences of being a ninja.
Im struggling here, i try to read your posts.
I really do.
But you just talk circles around a bush.
The issues of FFA looting is obvious.
And yet you avoid answering the issues in every post you do.
Why are you against seperate Infinite loot timer or instanced loot leagues?
Why this insistancy on "Pure FFA Elitism"?
The penalty for what? Im not sure I understand your question? There's different types of penalties in both.
Die in SC->15% less xp
Die in HC-> SC.
If you always ninja in both, few people will become friends with you. Trading can become a.hassle if you're known for being an asshole.
"
SL4Y3R wrote:
If you wish to take something out of the game that can be challenging/difficult/pain in the ass, there should be an inherent penalty for doing so.
You are taking risk out of the equation. For doing so, a consequence of some type should be enforced.
The penalty for playing in default or HC, because CT is the most challenging/difficult/pain in the ass league. According to your logic there has to be a penalty associated in just playing in the default or HC league.
"
SL4Y3R wrote:
Further, using the example of D2s ots and/or pickit scripts is moot. As its against the ToS and a bannable offense.
As for the "stuck in builds" statement. This leads me to my point about the consequences of being a ninja.
Right because they were against the TOS in D2 also, and there are no bots there right? They are also against the TOS in D3 and there are no bots there right? Right?
First of all, GGG only has 5 programmers and 1 system admin. Do you really think such a tiny team will be even able to detect the multiple bots/scripts that will show up once the game hits open beta? There is no way they have some secret in-house super anti-bot system in place when they have been scrambling to program up content for the game.
Second, the game is completely free to play. Meaning you can make a unlimited number accounts. A botter won't care at all if a few accounts get banned. The demand for items for the game is already high (considering everything gets removed in a few days). Just look at d2jsp, people are already selling items for money.
If you always ninja in both, few people will become friends with you. Trading can become a.hassle if you're known for being an asshole.
GGG is ready for up to 50000 accounts to be active come OB, and has standby plans in place to expand on that at need. Let's suppose they're being wildly over optimistic, only 10000 show up and play the first few weeks.
How can you rationally expect anyone to keep track of the reputations of that many players? Not to mention many times that number of actual characters. Word of mouth reputation only is a factor in small populations. It isn't even effective with current population levels.
Consequence for ninjaing? You say its that people might not friend you? Gee maybe if you do it in every game that your in and ninja anything remotely valuable. It wouldn't be hard at all to play in a lot of public games and only ninja when you see super the most valuable items. You could easily get away with that and still have a large friends list. Thats the poorest consequence ever.
I don't know why people with my playstyle should have a consequence simply for having a certain kind of playstyle. In that case GGG should do what I already described which is turn Path of Exile into a hardcore only game. Cutthroat only, pure FFA only. That way there is no confusion from my side of the fence.
Standard Forever
Last edited by iamstryker#5952 on Jan 9, 2013, 9:53:40 PM
There's no penalty for soloing, SL4Y3R. The player gets to be guaranteed 100% of the loot drops. By your reasoning, then, shouldn't we ban soloing? After all, hordes of GREENS are playing right now by themselves, in solo games, robbing all you l33t REDS of the opportunity to steal their stuff! Oh, the humanity!
GREENS vs. REDS: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/246#p811501
The Prisoner's Dilemma: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/262#p813428
Lethal_papercut's discussion with Chris: http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/392/page/235#p806542
Leagues with different rules. In one league, the game has the feel they want, and the people who prefer the feel can go into those league to feel their feels. Casuals who just want LOL DROPS can go into those leagues and bask in the sea corroded blades and small mana flasks. As long as it's not a global rule, the feel-based gameplay is available. Two groups have a satisfactory experience available to them rather than one.
What would be imbalanced about instanced loot? LOL GREENS would get a free ride, and LOL REDS would need to fight for scraps. Sounds like an optimal scenario for both parties. Each is getting what they want.
Please cite a source that backs up "hardcore is huge", while bearing in mind that "huge" is a relative term, so the source would need to show hardcores as being larger than any census of casuals. As for "likes to spend money", if you go back through this thread page by page skimming for Diamond Supporters, check their posts and you'll find a plurality are asking for a compromise, not to keep it gangsta.
It is highly unlikely the devs want to split the population of their game. I explained what would happen based on the version of instanced they could choose. It would be nice if people would actually read the posts they are quoting.
I really need to prove that their is a large market for people that play ARPG's that have access to money and are not casuals? D2, and D3 is not a large enough market to steal from?
I also never used the term "hardcores".
"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right!" Henry Ford
Consequence for ninjaing? You say its that people might not friend you? Gee maybe if you do it in every game that your in and ninja anything remotely valuable. It wouldn't be hard at all to play in a lot of public games and only ninja when you see super the most valuable items. You could easily get away with that and still have a large friends list. Thats the poorest consequence ever.
I don't know why people with my playstyle should have a consequence simply for having a certain kind of playstyle. In that case GGG should do what I already described which is turn Path of Exile into a hardcore only game. Cutthroat only, pure FFA only. That way there is no confusion from my side of the fence.
Would love it if it were FFA only. Would get rid of all the entitlement.
And there is a penalty for soloing. It's slower. A lot slower.
