Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Aixius wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

A paid league is not something that I am familiar with. This would be an option people have to pay to use ? I'm arguing that the standard settings should have the options for what kind of loot system people want to use. I have no idea why anyone would want to force people to use such an unpopular system. Which if you look around you will see that its obvious the majority of people want seperate loot or at least a long timer. One interesting thing about D3 was no matter how much people hated that game I never saw one person criticise the seperate loot system. It was the only thing everyone agreed was the right call.

So just to clarify you are not in favor of letting people have the choice of loot system in the default settings? If so then why?

The short timer is not a good compromise because all it did was level the playing field for the people who actually want to compete for loot. In regards to the people who DO NOT want to compete for loot it didn't fix much at all.

I found the "your loot is your own!" system in D3 to be very boring, quite honestly. When I played with people I never knew what kind of stuff they were getting unless they took the time to link everything in chat, and since the loot is very much a big part of these games I found that people rarely talked at all...because there was nothing to stir up conversation.

The reasons I want FFA loot are in the first post I made on page 134 of this thread. I think there should be elements of competition in looting, but I also played Diablo 2 for years and loved it. I don't think there should be a choice because I feel that FFA loot (or some version of it) is crucial to the spirit of the game.

Well my opinion is that you have no need to see other people's items. Linking items was not difficult and you could just as easily stirred up a conversation yourself doing that. I remember all of your posts clearly and I you never gave one good reason as to why this loot system needs to be forced onto all of its players with no other options. Realism? I think FUN takes a back seat to realisim. We already know why you want the FFA system and thats to be selfish. In the current system if an item drops it has either your name on it or one of your partners. You contend that you should be able to pick up the item that does not have your name on it even when your partner is close to you! Now how is doing that to somebody a good reason to force this game onto all players? I am all for you having what you want with the game so I don't understand at all why you can't just agree that having at least two different loot options for people to choose would not be a problem? If tons of people find the system unfun and promotes selfish behavior then why in the world would this system be crucial to the spirit of the game?

By the way having a long timer like I have argued up till now would still give you the ability to see other peoples items, so what you said is just another bad argument.

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iamstryker wrote:

Well my opinion is that you have no need to see other people's items.

The part in bold always strikes me as circular reasoning. Why are these "other people's items"?

A loot system where people are rewarded for being jerks pretty much makes me highly unlikely to play multi-player except with people I know. That in turn makes the game less likely to be played which means it'll be less likely to get any money from me.

If enough people are in the same boat that could be bad for a game like this.

Why not have a simple switch for which style people prefer? Basically short timer or any gear that is 'for you' only you can see and pick up. That seems pretty simple and easy, although I haven't seen their code so I don't know how hard it would be to implement in game.

Making grouping unfriendly is a pretty big negative in a game where a strong, and preferably large, community is desired.

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Skivverus wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

Well my opinion is that you have no need to see other people's items.

The part in bold always strikes me as circular reasoning. Why are these "other people's items"?

Well in D3 the items drop for a specific player only which is why its THEIR items. In this game the loot is still divided up and even has your name on it. So it is obvious what the fair way to divide up the items is....take only what has your name on it. If your not interested in being fair and unselfish like the other guy I am arguing with then thats your choice. I just want the rest of us to have a choice as well besides never playing in public games with people I don't know.

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Coldshard wrote:

A loot system where people are rewarded for being jerks pretty much makes me highly unlikely to play multi-player except with people I know. That in turn makes the game less likely to be played which means it'll be less likely to get any money from me.

If enough people are in the same boat that could be bad for a game like this.

Why not have a simple switch for which style people prefer? Basically short timer or any gear that is 'for you' only you can see and pick up. That seems pretty simple and easy, although I haven't seen their code so I don't know how hard it would be to implement in game.

Making grouping unfriendly is a pretty big negative in a game where a strong, and preferably large, community is desired.

What your just said there is exactly why I am trying to argue in favor of A. having a longer timer or B. Having the option to play on a different system.

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iamstryker wrote:

Well my opinion is that you have no need to see other people's items. Linking items was not difficult and you could just as easily stirred up a conversation yourself doing that. I remember all of your posts clearly and I you never gave one good reason as to why this loot system needs to be forced onto all of its players with no other options. Realism? I think FUN takes a back seat to realisim. We already know why you want the FFA system and thats to be selfish. In the current system if an item drops it has either your name on it or one of your partners. You contend that you should be able to pick up the item that does not have your name on it even when your partner is close to you! Now how is doing that to somebody a good reason to force this game onto all players? I am all for you having what you want with the game so I don't understand at all why you can't just agree that having at least two different loot options for people to choose would not be a problem?...

...By the way having a long timer like I have argued up till now would still give you the ability to see other peoples items, so what you said is just another bad argument.

The timer has your name on it, the item does not have your name on it. If it did, I'd be picking up "Iamstryker's Sword of Inanity" instead of "Sword of Inanity", which clearly isn't the case in-game. That's how reservations work: you don't reserve a table at a restaurant for 8PM, then show up at 9PM and cry "But, but my NAME WAS ON IT!" when you realize it's been given away. Your problem is that you're already thinking of the loot as yours, but it isn't until you pick it up.

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iamstryker wrote:

If tons of people find the system unfun and promotes selfish behavior then why in the world would this system be crucial to the spirit of the game?

The current system promotes behavior in general: whether that behavior is selfish or something else is determined by the players in the game, which is something I like. There is a difference between having a common cause and being on a team.

I don't agree that there should be a choice for players in the default leagues because I think FFA loot contributes to the overall mood and feel of the game. I like that everything is in the hands of the players. You've never played with me nor interacted with me outside of this thread, so stop with the "you're just selfish" stuff.

I sometimes refer to you as selfish because you have already agreed that you play that way in regards to the current loot system.

I refered to the timer because when your playing in a group the only fair way to divide up the loot is by going with the names on the items which the developers put there.

I am still waiting for you to give one remotely decent reason why this loot system needs to be forced onto all players. Overall mood and feel of the game? Really? Thats a friggin terrible reason to tick off the majority of players with this system. Seriously if you want to play selfishly then go do it with people who like playing that way. Not with people who hate it. Just seems so self-centered

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iamstryker wrote:

I refered to the timer because when your playing in a group the only fair way to divide up the loot is by going with the names on the items which the developers put there.

...wait, what?

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iamstryker wrote:

I sometimes refer to you as selfish because you have already agreed that you play that way in regards to the current loot system.

I refered to the timer because when your playing in a group the only fair way to divide up the loot is by going with the names on the items which the developers put there.

I am still waiting for you to give one remotely decent reason why this loot system needs to be forced onto all players. Overall mood and feel of the game? Really? Thats a friggin terrible reason to tick off the majority of players with this system. Seriously if you want to play selfishly then go do it with people who like playing that way. Not with people who hate it. Just seems so self-centered

Clearly we are at odds on the issue, so I don't really expect to convince you otherwise. I think my reasons for wanting FFA loot (as the default league standard) are valid. I don't really care if you can't handle that. Millions of players played Diablo 2 for years with a FFA system that didn't include reserve timers. Not everyone liked it then either, but the game still flourished.

I never said I play selfishly, only that I appreciate a system that doesn't make all the decisions for the players. I've picked up items that weren't "marked" for me initially and then tossed them to the person I was playing with. Does that make me selfish? I like that it was my decision to do what I wanted.

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Aixius wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

I sometimes refer to you as selfish because you have already agreed that you play that way in regards to the current loot system.

I refered to the timer because when your playing in a group the only fair way to divide up the loot is by going with the names on the items which the developers put there.

I am still waiting for you to give one remotely decent reason why this loot system needs to be forced onto all players. Overall mood and feel of the game? Really? Thats a friggin terrible reason to tick off the majority of players with this system. Seriously if you want to play selfishly then go do it with people who like playing that way. Not with people who hate it. Just seems so self-centered

Clearly we are at odds on the issue, so I don't really expect to convince you otherwise. I think my reasons for wanting FFA loot (as the default league standard) are valid. I don't really care if you can't handle that. Millions of players played Diablo 2 for years with a FFA system that didn't include reserve timers. Not everyone liked it then either, but the game still flourished.

I never said I play selfishly, only that I appreciate a system that doesn't make all the decisions for the players. I've picked up items that weren't "marked" for me initially and then tossed them to the person I was playing with. Does that make me selfish? I like that it was my decision to do what I wanted.

Your comments up to this point reveal that you do intend to play selfishly at least part of the time. I'm guessing those items that you tossed to the other person were not items that you wanted or needed am I right? If you do not intend to play in this fashion at all then I am baffled as to why you will not even consider supporting having a different option for all the players who want it. I am trying to support a system where more timid/ranged/or combat focused players do not get screwed over by the current system and resort to not ever playing the game with strangers. Diablo 2 was a great game with an out dated loot system IMO. I agree that theres no point in us continuing to argue. Enjoy the game.