You know what happens when your Reflexes turn to Iron?

How does one actually evade? You either move out of range or contort your body so that nothing hits. You can't evade while doing nothing and just continue to attack/cast what ever you want.

Look at these clips from Troy and Hajime no Ippo

In Troy chances to attack are lost in order to evade. In Hajime no Ippo blows are mitigated by "going with the punches".

"Troy" should be what happens when you successfully dodge (temporary decrease in attack/cast speed) and "Ippo" should be what happens when eva fails.

Default evasion effect (what they should be, not just a flat out "miss")
Success = -(small number - function of dex) attacks/sec for 2sec
Failure = -(bigger number - function of dex) attacks/sec for 5sec + bleeding/glancing blow

Acrobatics would add a self knockback opposite (maybe random) direction of damage on successful dodge ala "Troy". It's isn't a straight up improvement for taking the node. There will still be a trade off (currently you lose all armor and ES). This trades uptime on targets for survivability.

Iron reflexes should mitigate damage as a function of armor/HP (or both what ever) on a failed dodge ala "Ippo". The downside could be increased reduction on attacks/sec or increased duration of reduced attacks/sec.

While this sounds quite realistic and interesting, it seems to actually...gimp an already questionable form of defence, since right now there's no penalty for a successful evasion, and we're still concerned the defence is insufficient...

Well, eva is just the combination of 2 extremes (all damage or non of it). It's really good when it works and really bad when it doesn't. This attempts to bring the good and the bad closer together (in line with the other defense mechanics).

When does armor work? When you take physical damage.
When does ES work? When you take damage.
When does HP work? When you take damage.
When does eva work? When your DON'T take damage.

This suggestion makes it so that eva works "when you take damage"

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anubite wrote:

Except it's impossible to capitalize on Tempest Shield whlie starting as a Ranger/Duelist/Marauder AND taking points in the dex side of the tree. You'll spend about 20-30 points navigating to all the +int nodes necessarily to use Tempest Shield, plus if you want it to do any damage, you'll want a few +lightning damage clusters. Your dexterity is pretty much going to waste AND COUNTERACTING TEMPEST SHIELD -- because if you evade an attack, you're not blocking it. Thus, your tempest shield does nothing.

my block/evasion duelist uses tempest shield
it needs 16 int and gives a flat 4% damage reduction form lvl x to lvl 100

why would i skill more int or lightning damage for that little bit of no damage it might provide.. i use it for the block


something for u guys about evasion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SGjNJMmMZA&feature=related

Been playing for a couple of weeks and eyeballing this skill; it says it replaces your evasion with armor, I take that to mean that you loose all evasion capability for more armor, is that the correct reading?

Or is it that your armor is increased by your evasion amount more or less leaving evasion intact while increasing your armor?

This has me wondering about a couple of the mechanics of the game where mitigation is concerned:

Evasion = Dodging/avoiding attacks (needs some visual queues to know when you evade)

Armor = Mitigates incoming physical damage.

Energy shield = extra HP that recharges rather quickly (is this pool of "hp" protected by armor/evasion/resistances/block or does it have to be used up before those mechanics kick in?)

Resistances = reduces incoming elemental damage.

Block = I am assuming that on a successful block some extra damage is mitigated (does this apply to elemental as well?)

Still a noob learning...

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Racheakt wrote:

Been playing for a couple of weeks and eyeballing this skill; it says it replaces your evasion with armor, I take that to mean that you loose all evasion capability for more armor, is that the correct reading?

It is indeed the correct reading; if it left your evasion rating intact as evasion, there would be much less reason not to take it.

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Skivverus wrote:

It is indeed the correct reading; if it left your evasion rating intact as evasion, there would be much less reason not to take it.

Ok, Then why take it over stacking armor? even heavy armor users retain some evasion do they not?

I mean if I am getting lots of armor, but making it so the mobs always hit me, is that really that good of a payoff? is that armor buff that good?

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Racheakt wrote:

Ok, Then why take it over stacking armor? even heavy armor users retain some evasion do they not?

I mean if I am getting lots of armor, but making it so the mobs always hit me, is that really that good of a payoff? is that armor buff that good?

Good question; I've never taken it myself.

That said, the reason this is considered useful is because the converted Evasion benefits from both armor and evasion passives (including the bonus from Dexterity)... meaning you can get significantly higher armor values with Iron Reflexes (as I understand it) than even a character going for straight armor would.

That is correct. The moment I converted Charan's 7000+ evasion to armour he retained the superior movement speed of leather (given that heavier armour slows you down) and gained a ridiculous amount of damage reduction.

As I've stipulated earlier, however, the reduction of your evasion chance to 5% can be lethal due to post-impact effects such as poison, burning and bleeding. This is an issue in later difficulties, of course, where a great majority of critters deal some sort of elemental damage. Any crit they land has a chance of inflicting a status ailment. The best way to avoid that...is to avoid that.

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Update: Charan's almost level 50, meandering through merciless act 1. He dies to charging rhoas, but then again who but the most dedicated tank doesn't? Everything else is manageable. Still only 69% chance to evade, 32% chance to block (might have dropped a bit), 1200 life, well over max resists (in preparation for curses).

Someone in chat yesterday made the broad claim that using Flicker Strike in Merciless is suicide and no one does it. Well, I do, but like everything else I do on my evader, I do it carefully and deliberately. Most importantly, I try never to do it without a target. That sort of random skittering about is suicide.

Iron reflexes ability to outperform a flat armor build in mitigation % is countered by its associated 5% evasion cap. Armor builds can still reach 30%+ evasion with grace, a three figure dex stat and perhaps some evasion affixes on jewelry.