Last Epoch is POE Killer now

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bㄴaㄷkㅁut wrote:

The depth and complexity between Last Epoch and PoE is as different as a puddle is to the ocean.

Oh please, come on now. Path of Exile isn't even that deep and complex. It does have amazing systems, no questions asked, but a lot of it is just a decade worth of bloat and feature creep, the game being unnecessarily tedious and the illusion of choice.

What you call bloat and/or feature creep is actual content. It is THE thing that both d4 and LE _lack_.
As far as complexity goes, the comparison you quoted is correct, next to poe, last epoch is childs play, literally.

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arandan wrote:

What you call bloat and/or feature creep is actual content. It is THE thing that both d4 and LE _lack_.

It took PoE years to get to the current content. LE just got released, what do you expect? The same amount of content a different game has after being in dev for over a decade? The official PoE release was also bland and lacked the content to actually feel "completed" hoho

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Pashid wrote:

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arandan wrote:

What you call bloat and/or feature creep is actual content. It is THE thing that both d4 and LE _lack_.

It took PoE years to get to the current content. LE just got released, what do you expect? The same amount of content a different game has after being in dev for over a decade? The official PoE release was also bland and lacked the content to actually feel "completed" hoho

Game development (code itself even) has progressed so much that the comparison you're attempting to draw here is beyond ridiculous.

Not to mention the amount of things that the last epoch team has been literally shown and could've either copied or incorporated in different forms into their product.

Instead what they did was create the same bland infinitely scaling greater riftesque system that's failed d3 and is soon also gonna fail d4. Pathetic is an understatement.

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arandan wrote:

Instead what they did was create the same bland infinitely scaling greater riftesque system that's failed d3 and is soon also gonna fail d4. Pathetic is an understatement.

Are you really comparing D3's Greater Rifts to D4's Nightmare Dungeons? Exposed. Try again.

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arandan wrote:

Instead what they did was create the same bland infinitely scaling greater riftesque system that's failed d3 and is soon also gonna fail d4. Pathetic is an understatement.

Are you really comparing D3's Greater Rifts to D4's Nightmare Dungeons? Exposed. Try again.

No. Learn to read with comprehension and notice the word I added in there on purpose - namely soon.
Coming to you soon, in season 4 of diablo 4, some variation of an infinitely scaling dungeon, aka a greater rift. Mark my words, I can read those 'developers' like an open book.

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arandan wrote:

Game development (code itself even) has progressed so much that the comparison you're attempting to draw here is beyond ridiculous.

That's why GGG needs so long to develop a prequel on the same engine and same existing base for years? Cause no shocking surprise coding still takes a long time these days even with small improvements in coding over the past decade.
I mean it took them 6 years to get the game in a decent state with a fully finished campaign story and viable entertaining endgame. And no the early PoE time wasn't any different to the current LE release. Fun at first but still a lacklusting short adventure with the lack of content in each new league.
Just takes a year or two and LE is going to also have a lot more content. Unlike Blizzard they seem to take their game serious after all.

But it does sounds more like you're just heavily used and spoiled to load up a game with a lot of content, and just expect every other new release to be just as filled without the care that the content development takes time hoho.

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Pashid wrote:

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arandan wrote:

Game development (code itself even) has progressed so much that the comparison you're attempting to draw here is beyond ridiculous.

That's why GGG needs so long to develop a prequel on the same engine and same existing base for years? Cause no shocking surprise coding still takes a long time these days even with small improvements in coding over the past decade.
I mean it took them 6 years to get the game in a decent state with a fully finished campaign story and viable entertaining endgame. And no the early PoE time wasn't any different to the current LE release. Fun at first but still a lacklusting short adventure with the lack of content in each new league.
Just takes a year or two and LE is going to also have a lot more content. Unlike Blizzard they seem to take their game serious after all.

But it does sounds more like you're just heavily used and spoiled to load up a game with a lot of content, and just expect every other new release to be just as filled without the care that the content development takes time hoho.

Look, it's clear that you have no idea how game development works.
The natural progression that's happened in coding in particular relates to the ease of use and the amount of extra options you are presented with - more so than the bare speed of output - although that's also accelerated quite significantly.

My comment as it relates to last epoch simply meant that they've had A LOT more options out of the gates in terms of the kind of mechanics they could've implemented into their game, compared to the release of poe.

As far as why it's taking so long to develop poe 2:

1) clearly they've taken a huge sidestep and decide to create 2 separate titles
2) they are not in a hurry and want to do what used to be done by default in this industry - release as finished a product as possible.
3) there are far more differences, than similarities between poe 1 and poe 2, so your whole 'point' is disingenuous to begin with.

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Pashid wrote:

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arandan wrote:

Game development (code itself even) has progressed so much that the comparison you're attempting to draw here is beyond ridiculous.

That's why GGG needs so long to develop a prequel on the same engine and same existing base for years? Cause no shocking surprise coding still takes a long time these days even with small improvements in coding over the past decade.
I mean it took them 6 years to get the game in a decent state with a fully finished campaign story and viable entertaining endgame. And no the early PoE time wasn't any different to the current LE release. Fun at first but still a lacklusting short adventure with the lack of content in each new league.

You know PoE was, at first, made by like 5 people? Even when beta finished and we got PoE 1.0 it was still maybe like team of 10-15 people.

Eleventh Hour Games now has 50-200 people. And they also have tools that 12 years ago people couldnt even imagine. Comparing PoE launch to LE launch is so stupid that its hard to take serious anything else you said.

PoE was developed against a technically more polished competitor and launched in an objectively worst state than D3, D4, and LE. None of that matters. None of the comparisons to then and now matters. Content matters. PoE's success is built upon its content cadence and lateral expansion. The key to that success stems from the decision to go with bottom-up design via its mechanical tag system as opposed to the traditional top-down method used in most RPG games. It makes PoE modular in nature and giving it incredible agility to expand the game as well as the efficiency by not having to retread sub-system development.

Take this example. What does it take to add one skill that can be in a build for D4, LE, and PoE?
- In D4 it means integrating it and the sub talent into one of the classes' skill trees, designing new aspect powers, and adding to the affix pool of the itemization.
- In LE it means integrating it into one of the mastery classes, designing that skill's passive tree, and expanding the itemization where needed.
- In PoE the devs just add the skill. It automatically inherits the interaction with supports, items, and passives from the tags. Plus its usable by all the classes and ascendancies.


LE is a great game, but it is unrealistic to expect it to be able to match the pace and degree of PoE's development cadence.

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Aynix wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

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arandan wrote:

Game development (code itself even) has progressed so much that the comparison you're attempting to draw here is beyond ridiculous.

That's why GGG needs so long to develop a prequel on the same engine and same existing base for years? Cause no shocking surprise coding still takes a long time these days even with small improvements in coding over the past decade.
I mean it took them 6 years to get the game in a decent state with a fully finished campaign story and viable entertaining endgame. And no the early PoE time wasn't any different to the current LE release. Fun at first but still a lacklusting short adventure with the lack of content in each new league.

You know PoE was, at first, made by like 5 people? Even when beta finished and we got PoE 1.0 it was still maybe like team of 10-15 people.

Eleventh Hour Games now has 50-200 people. And they also have tools that 12 years ago people couldnt even imagine. Comparing PoE launch to LE launch is so stupid that its hard to take serious anything else you said.

Couldn't have put it better myself.