Witch - [3.5] Occultist Vortex/Cold Snap ES/CI - Deathless and Safe Uber Elder and T16's - Forum

Unless I'm wrong there's an open suffix on that amulet so you could shift your spider there, if you want to give up the gloves. I think CDOT shaped gloves are BiS (beating Fingerless without it, getting shaped fingerless for both isn't reasonable for most of us since they cost more than a HH). You can get around 150-180 ES on shaped sorc gloves with this affix, but you can't match synthesised ES. So that's an option if you want to replace. Last edited by SuperBurgers#6590 on May 9, 2019, 11:40:31 PM	Posted by SuperBurgers#6590 on May 9, 2019, 11:39:45 PM Quote this Post
" Your gear is decent, except your body armour which is really low on ES. That should be your next big upgrade defense wise. Try to get at least 600+ es. Got one yesterday. And a Mace with Cold Dmg over Time Multi. but without Minion DMG. My Tooltip DPS on Vortex is lower now. Should i know respecc the Minion Notes for whatever u advise to me..?	Posted by RDS1964#1791 on May 10, 2019, 1:21:48 AM Quote this Post
You should check your options in POB. Don't get me wrong, Spiritual Aid node is very strong, you can't go wrong with it.	Posted by Ashtrey#7627 on May 10, 2019, 2:58:23 AM Quote this Post
" SuperBurgers wrote: Unless I'm wrong there's an open suffix on that amulet so you could shift your spider there, if you want to give up the gloves. I think CDOT shaped gloves are BiS (beating Fingerless without it, getting shaped fingerless for both isn't reasonable for most of us since they cost more than a HH). You can get around 150-180 ES on shaped sorc gloves with this affix, but you can't match synthesised ES. So that's an option if you want to replace. CDOT gloves are definitely BIS. for myself I just decided not to get them cuz I couldnt justify the cost. also I prioritize the enchant "of light" higher than the dps boost. didn't want to craft, but couldnt find a seller, so I just didnt bother. if the opportunity arises, definitely get CDOT gloves if your budget allows.	Posted by SonsOfKorhal#5375 on May 10, 2019, 3:07:21 AM Quote this Post
" RDS1964 wrote: " Your gear is decent, except your body armour which is really low on ES. That should be your next big upgrade defense wise. Try to get at least 600+ es. Got one yesterday. And a Mace with Cold Dmg over Time Multi. but without Minion DMG. My Tooltip DPS on Vortex is lower now. Should i know respecc the Minion Notes for whatever u advise to me..? " Ashtrey wrote: You should check your options in POB. Don't get me wrong, Spiritual Aid node is very strong, you can't go wrong with it. agree, spiritual aid gives around 80% dmg. in my POB, I need about 80% spell damage to make up for it. for your wep, how much % minion damage did you lose? how much spell damage did you get on it? that would account for the loss. it should not be significant. I'm talking about 1-2% difference here. tooltip dps is a good estimate, but dont be over reliant on it. especially when the values are small differences. if you told me 700k tooltip dps got halved to 350k, then yes something screwed up. but if 700k got reduced to 680k, it's honestly not a big difference. as we've mentioned, the key is whether you have 5 better SP to allocate if you do not get Spiritual Aid, if you do, go ahead and de-allocate it. don't blindly follow what we are doing. cheers!	Posted by SonsOfKorhal#5375 on May 10, 2019, 3:10:35 AM Quote this Post
" SonsOfKorhal wrote: I re-iterate, even without minion damage craft on your wep, Spiritual Aid is STILL significant (at least for me). I cannot find 5SP elsewhere that would give what Spiritual Aid can. BUT, I would say this, if you do not need the left side of the tree, then yes, there are other SP you can add. however for myself, I NEEDED Sovereignty, so that I can squeeze 5 auras/aspect. thus, I picked up Zealot's Oath on the way. ZO has good synergy with other life regeneration nodes you take on the right side of the tree as well. this also partially answers your question on leech. short answer is NO (for myself at least). a bulk of my regeneration comes from my flask, life regeneration nodes, consecrated ground, killing enemies (ascendancy), etc. I have experimented with the leech and it is terrible to say the least. why? the idea is this - you need leech to sustain before ES recharge kicks in. you need ES recharge to kick in because you are low on ES. you are low on ES because you took some hits from some mobs (or what not). in order to leech, you need to place vortex to hit (on the said boss for example). it just contradicts the idea of running AWAY from the mobs/boss, because leech basically says this - go into the fight with low ES to hit what gave you the low ES to regenerate ES before the recharge kicks in. you are definitely better off trying to run away and wait say 1.2-1.5s. also leech is very very little. For Spiritual Aid node, it depends on our tree and how we balance offense/defense, I went for double curse and full ES wheel and you went LL so it is hard to compare directly. As for ZO, I tested it out myself, I took Soul Thief which along Heart of Ice gives 0.5% es leech and removed ZO. Turns out I barely felt any difference, except maybe in solo boss room where you notice you no longer regen, but then it's not hard for recharge to kick in. I will try to play a bit more that way and see how it goes. Also I will probably swap my current Sulphur flask for The Sorrow of the Divine, this way I get ZO back and Consecrated Ground (which is really the big loss without ZO)! I'll also need to fully respec the left side of my tree to something else, I think I may grab more jewel node and see if it's worth skipping ZO from tree.	Posted by Ashtrey#7627 on May 10, 2019, 3:15:36 AM Quote this Post
" Ashtrey wrote: " SonsOfKorhal wrote: I re-iterate, even without minion damage craft on your wep, Spiritual Aid is STILL significant (at least for me). I cannot find 5SP elsewhere that would give what Spiritual Aid can. BUT, I would say this, if you do not need the left side of the tree, then yes, there are other SP you can add. however for myself, I NEEDED Sovereignty, so that I can squeeze 5 auras/aspect. thus, I picked up Zealot's Oath on the way. ZO has good synergy with other life regeneration nodes you take on the right side of the tree as well. this also partially answers your question on leech. short answer is NO (for myself at least). a bulk of my regeneration comes from my flask, life regeneration nodes, consecrated ground, killing enemies (ascendancy), etc. I have experimented with the leech and it is terrible to say the least. why? the idea is this - you need leech to sustain before ES recharge kicks in. you need ES recharge to kick in because you are low on ES. you are low on ES because you took some hits from some mobs (or what not). in order to leech, you need to place vortex to hit (on the said boss for example). it just contradicts the idea of running AWAY from the mobs/boss, because leech basically says this - go into the fight with low ES to hit what gave you the low ES to regenerate ES before the recharge kicks in. you are definitely better off trying to run away and wait say 1.2-1.5s. also leech is very very little. For Spiritual Aid node, it depends on our tree and how we balance offense/defense, I went for double curse and full ES wheel and you went LL so it is hard to compare directly. As for ZO, I tested it out myself, I took Soul Thief which along Heart of Ice gives 0.5% es leech and removed ZO. Turns out I barely felt any difference, except maybe in solo boss room where you notice you no longer regen, but then it's not hard for recharge to kick in. I will try to play a bit more that way and see how it goes. Also I will probably swap my current Sulphur flask for The Sorrow of the Divine, this way I get ZO back and Consecrated Ground (which is really the big loss without ZO)! I'll also need to fully respec the left side of my tree to something else, I think I may grab more jewel node and see if it's worth skipping ZO from tree. oh no no don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it is a must to grab ZO. as I said, I needed Sovereignty to run all my auras, hence I HAD to path that way. so I picked up everything nearby as well. regarding the consecrated ground, that's why I opted for "of light" gloves, and yes, sulfur flask is a must. in fact, I almost got my hands on a bottled faith before Chris' announcement made the price triple. as you said, definitely not an issue if you can wait for the recharge to kick in. but this is dependent on the fight and whether you can dodge for 1.2-1.5s. during the heat of the fight you won't know how things would unfold. I did consider sorrow of the divine as well, and I think it's a great flask to run if you dont need the left side of the tree, definitely try to fit that in. with the additional SP, you can grab more ES nodes, or jewel nodes. before I was LL, I was also double curse, running despair via Witchfire Brew flask. Also I was experimenting with Solstice Vigil, thus running temp chains blasphemy as well. I dropped that in favour of a Malevolence Aul's and to run Hatred. (this is on CI). not sure if you've tried, but I think you cant run disc+mal+aspect without sovereignty. (or some other mana reservation nodes)	Posted by SonsOfKorhal#5375 on May 10, 2019, 5:49:01 AM Quote this Post
I throw a quick respec removing the left side of the tree and then checked POB. I grabbed 2 more jewel nodes and went for Trickery dps wise. At first glance, same dps as a Spiritual Aid tree but the jewels gives more flexibility which is nice. At the end of the day, it won't make much difference to the classic tree. Spoiler 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xIF0bFcLgqVwceCB4MLzAgpXtXLgBnXBWRCFbBfY0lPE93ndNQSpCMZ53R3eUKcaaLVIMHG8EYWonq7KGhoG1iyZlo4PYO2nYp_CBBIERDRrURGyG3S0thbUqy4F1YCHRA6HhpNBMyQdRBCBnI4keIamECXMhswFaY0y19MQMZ5DXZ9rYbsI8plHVV1DfOUJ-3XDn8rMQta-N8syCcYrqHofDfbMSm6INqtpVadEZj2M2zAMZKotmqd4BVQqaQzVcmA9bwVpMrYq-3OrnPcGY2FGm783YzKlqQ2V-1um0mI81GC8j0kEtwcyeihzwOnUS8GWh2GqIl3LfYFnQ7cRaA8zFigwIQZf95DNAPaYbMeVaUOgbDPEfZtD0eIAilwA3NC9uGu1CMy3jGmKK0G9-3H3YPeg6v3umvczt11wgK6tygbruY0GqiH4QT6Ni4RZvCds4sGAzVlV8UWAnUHZiKJwqGuV6g0qwepctjZDNDU5R9B9WpeAMyCCTkJtILAcDgHXVnMMJxoAE_Zs6FuwEq4iEgCCtrWmgckwjCtMlfJd6mJkQBXzpOIUyBULvDUT0Oa0uguJtaJ_RurRRWs9YrnQapmXCc3r3wbDh1-0Vb4wuMANNV0Ru70P4Hgjd72hBbqwzHYq0AdJammpRsa045k1gurjQfAUr2lnPVSra-Xbgs-VN9TYSclxPEcoiUx7VxMjmtIT6FBqrTl2wL0B6Uvsckfb0rye6mKGAqahXxcK-4DCXAFlUGJbEYU938aA36SjuJCs1R6Y1-pczSDc3maQ1T7ZMmfxbv3T0okPIXePJNSEcXkTzFnesS4SPwyANlsR36ah8VJLzhPtstQWBwuhwpj2xNwtUuuSDaOGkrSc1oqO09YivoKHrT1ni8Vpg8XP4nmiNR7sQxEz-dYaROFkYuStBiF2XaaYUJJD8LmBL6DnE57vSuhSPPPCsqKYQMbTni8ALiLIh5Q5yhau7Uhd71kct4YBl0bv75r_Vc1OxDoKoO15kLnb0iBrTINvKGvvAHANTC1-q8EqXjdeu9mWQVuMwZoWfMyRgsNIPkImhEYpNT99ZbD5F6vcqK2ag4PeXSqhXBLCOPGoli5UG6ERl47p0f0AUwT5kkNfqalgtuScuwTQhYQ_WHtZYtvKklOLQrwZEIfJeAxaKNQEKKM4YZUZAH4a5j3EW90aSshGztz3_czi5jLCtUCGK4vct9Z-rdVFZ4s_0GfarzeYVpdnqtWOdal2vHEFdJBEGdQMDTBxGEa9q3j2ZO1DxqmDDqGE49sGVPscIeZ4dgBGpZJ6PnWEHVAOwEMHnpK-FNTHHhREz_WJC3cAQUIaHUkIYMvMZt3SlZS63gyjQtkSrLJ6KbuH6WbOgprlbHTC-C1e63WB3swiKxaMe2v7xZBsAbDa9tpyYb_4laCydJl3zq1SlEWrem1-RcisIJiSiOz52Nkq7xb7tjCMBLMCyVypRd1ss5TTBBCj2WRkZpqOe7chuEYIYrY2fk4A2Q5pH4CYgCLnQfZzKEBDhXmAhU21Igh5gA49BpSQNI2pvIBLJjmAmfoirMOak-MniMVPVfOtp0aExJZYsO0twWAKU0MwIPQikPiiEkp4-3zWg7DmZy1WFE2AxsgzGOkoh0pfHLkA3wTVytriJoBHwsBy0KMRG9p26NkxJFHkY0yprQRRiGPpEwxNPHNcprEEowpKHelqz22FM5SujGcS6afy_9tMKPgWC4otKB-9FM5_W3Jzuy4tHUjoRvPV0tInma4vLksfaeIqqpkICCBEglxJA8ERFUo5RPhwDQCl8D3ojQmhjusHLkXKJtgTLKjv9DDesrpE7YbVpaKUHE7TDGrUthWlOcliHcl9wToStruvHYdQ0daW4vZ9sJA0R4Rq-QZyB7Z9ZAeEAfDCHnMEUhL7yrcdx5cOUwic2exdwN8yoA73PCk1YPDAJo7dviBXrQ9obQVmGxpqVB9BL1FUU59-NIXRDqSpHo_J7qDYiVtfLQY4ikDGANIvNINBYGOARiiwoSnxPSlIQFyiAlf4LvMlCrgnXeX5nHmuGyhh6_XkW_EZsVEgV2myWF6sg0mAI-X6xDKuCghTIBSMS7YGCEO2BP0bVC5Qm6K8anJqjzTLmm0AdtUtsG9cTMZN3fuxOSk6mVmnxkKDJFU6hQdsolWKHKSUWSkMXCW9wHT0HvIZkcIHW7kO5crBypWaOGATHAhbEoKFy8FymAbtHWO9hTd4ddsiSmmd6oI-20Cd8-69JQeTLS0Gsl-WgwltLLot-m9q2A-iYkMdng_54dCsSeSbS7S2Df0aRj6l4PuaSyq0hATigA2kBmzpYeYEbuASF9KI9JUDPZ6HoW_QTsBturF8Ut_55G1dqGjaIV53blyPpyYfztoU0tTPnk_HYWwWq4_AL1s1wjwGzaxr256jFAkU4x53hKMp8yFvAnZjymF-wIW0hY1sBEWeEGXDR-1qooOte-bO83LXN4XNb8Kuli2-ZdcXs8ae49Ys9SZpmjwuFn6PwgfjMbXN35qCFNcOY9jBPhNQn5lEwheAkMD_BfEZIFnfsR2zUw6Vh7oEkqpQUJ2FwMynYv3wxffa76XNBeUXLaMkX9TRK5mPGstRi9L4a7fJGrfKIcFB3XWhIGGIOdsWgQrAoQDjcKS45AGBSo08ADGMKYKJIh7xINB8GzMAmW63rfJte2Uv3AivL6Q1F-kBqHf-a3GLM-PLU3bL34lb0axeDV-edSObVOXUKgewlr84WyEqe-PKQLxtoOrT3DaiyvEx3DCSOYm7toVSHbc2bHk2qnpwdvGQylnA5a9ybmpn8RtOC1LRTlmRzGmYdPVFpyWhaFNB5URj--TQ2uRQg5UNDqvJiprmVrwAvxyGtgxTUXKDWRa_h7QcBjWbrkKxcKX52bUt59aqx9W6OHpHT280pFHqun81nBx9ziWfYWkNrDa3eeH4bTHZLSg7KwZ1kbIhoF8R0a8J6QYPfaEetyeC5rB8mY7aE0j3DNIphXSabFd1vIqtLWN1SlmbOeuFkyiTxUtDuz0C0Wse9wxTs4-i1xkFPSdaY95vNNwrYr-lZnQeHnfR1Ga9ed5N0PPJvKFI7c2rVHEwvDh5XfzAbxIH4XDj53pNESt-nbA8u7I4urJjeUkSaRnP09deO2OxGL58Rfc5Nm2oz7KDJMtWvyc8ON2_Pu63UR8unnQa5gezZVO3-HdQOk_0Kq60AiXafgH3yTSKyn8e4jmW4-OzYZykevXjxA0s7_cWBnm_t_4P3_wvjzrGvw==	Posted by Ashtrey#7627 on May 10, 2019, 8:20:23 AM Quote this Post
How much did i lose when i change the Mace and have no "Minions deal..." on it?...Vortex from 11,2k Tooltip to 8,4k	Posted by RDS1964#1791 on May 10, 2019, 8:34:16 AM Quote this Post
The rolls matter a lot too, what did you have? Here's mine that I made earlier this evening. I ran the numbers a while ago and if you can only get one native affix, CDOT is best, beating 90%+ minion damage. That's because crafted CDOT is much lower. If I can get two, sure, 90%+ minion and CDOT together would be great, but so would T1 spell damage, or damage on full life (if I were still CI). But I think it's very hard to get both since CDOT is already a 0.005% chance or something ridiculous. The best idea is to copy and paste the item from the official trade site into POB to check your DPS before buying.	Posted by SuperBurgers#6590 on May 10, 2019, 8:56:42 AM Quote this Post