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Armour does provided reduction against any physical damage hit. The bigger the hit, the less percentage damage reduction you get (but a small percentage of a big hit can still be a larger value of damage prevented than a big percentage of a very small hit).
If you put on your full plate mail, and I throw hundreds of toothpicks at you, you'll basically not feel it. If someone catapults a whole tree at you, don't expect the armour to prevent as much of the damage.
I just wanted to add that this analogy, while explanatory, has a crucial flaw: it presumes all health is equal.
This can be illustrated by relating it to the game with some numeric values. At level 1, a hit for 50 damage would be analogous to a near fatal wound (like being hit by a tree). At level 50, getting hit for 50 damage is no longer analogous to being hit for near fatal damage (now it is like being hit by a toothpick).
Armor doesn't operate on the magnitude of the damage relative to your life total, as in the analogy. Armor operates on the magnitude of the nominal damage value, as I described above.
The maximum health pool increases (a lot) which means that not all health is equal. It cannot be said that a certain damage value represents "getting hit by a tree" while another damage value represents "getting hit by a toothpick." A description of armor that presumes such statements can be made is inherently flawed.
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Posted byPolarisOrbiton Mar 4, 2013, 9:17:39 PM
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While I agree that armor needs some tweaking I think the concept of reducing less damage against big hits is brilliant. I absolutely disagree with people saying armor is useless. It works totally fine for me.
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Posted byReizokoon Mar 4, 2013, 9:19:37 PM
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I don't understand why every single regular mob in act 3 is supposed to be a tree.
I find it vastly easier to facetank Brutus and kole than it is to run around trying to fight regular mobs anywhere in act 3 and yes my resists are maxed.
Even act 2 merciless is borderline every single mob being a tree. The advice that was given to me by so many people to only stack HP nodes for defense is true, any other defensive stat is a waste of a passive point.
I don't enjoy being mobbed by 20 regular enemies, and only being able to whack each one twice before having to run away and needing to spend a whole year just to clear one area on my own because I was unaware that I was supposed to have gone lightning arrow, dual totem or summoner to win.
(b) Personal abuse, foul language, inappropriate subject matter, obscene, harassing, threatening, hateful, or discriminatory or defamatory remarks of any nature ... are not permitted.
- PoE TOS.
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Posted bybhavvon Mar 4, 2013, 9:22:07 PM
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I'm not trying to shut down conversation, but there appear to be a bunch of misconceptions in this thread.
Armour does provided reduction against any physical damage hit. The bigger the hit, the less percentage damage reduction you get (but a small percentage of a big hit can still be a larger value of damage prevented than a big percentage of a very small hit).
If you put on your full plate mail, and I throw hundreds of toothpicks at you, you'll basically not feel it. If someone catapults a whole tree at you, don't expect the armour to prevent as much of the damage.
Armour is better against lots of small hits than against a few big hits - it works well in the case of getting surrounded by normal monsters in melee, but you still need to be quite careful around bosses.
Vaal's explosion/slam seems to keep getting brought up. Please keep in mind that this spell is half fire damage, which is completely unaffected by armour, and that it's very telegraphed and it's intended that you can learn to see it coming and avoid it if you can't tank it (and it's hard to tank).
I'm going to try to ignore the fact that you're a developer and respond as if you were a regular player. It might get me in trouble, but...
I don't think many people here actually believe armor does nothing. They just know that it does almost nothing. Your analogy would work if any mob in the game threw toothpicks at players. Or if so many mobs didn't have elemental attacks (sometimes with a physical damage component).
And frankly, players don't need defense against white/normal monsters. They're already dead, or well on their way. It's the yellow/gold monsters that "throw trees" repeatedly. It's been my experience that anything more than three points in armor is useless. However, there's no limit to the usefulness of Health nodes.
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Posted byTabxon Mar 4, 2013, 9:40:29 PM
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Armour does provided reduction against any physical damage hit. The bigger the hit, the less percentage damage reduction you get (but a small percentage of a big hit can still be a larger value of damage prevented than a big percentage of a very small hit).
If you put on your full plate mail, and I throw hundreds of toothpicks at you, you'll basically not feel it. If someone catapults a whole tree at you, don't expect the armour to prevent as much of the damage.
This makes absolutely no sense. What you are saying is that armor magically softens when you get hit by the tree instead of the toothpick. The armor is still the same armor, no matter whether you get hit by the tree or toothpick. Of course you take more damage from a tree, but the same armor you have should negate the same percentage of damage whether it is from toothpicks or trees, so you still take MUCH more damage from trees, but the armor is accounted the same as with toothpicks.
Honestly GGG, stop trying to reason your way out of this ridiculously nonsensical system when you have no good reason to back it up.
Last edited by tinghshi on Mar 4, 2013, 9:45:00 PM
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Posted bytinghshion Mar 4, 2013, 9:44:30 PM
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Armour does provided reduction against any physical damage hit. The bigger the hit, the less percentage damage reduction you get (but a small percentage of a big hit can still be a larger value of damage prevented than a big percentage of a very small hit).
If you put on your full plate mail, and I throw hundreds of toothpicks at you, you'll basically not feel it. If someone catapults a whole tree at you, don't expect the armour to prevent as much of the damage.
This makes absolutely no sense. What you are saying is that armor magically softens when you get hit by the tree instead of the toothpick. The armor is still the same armor, no matter whether you get hit by the tree or toothpick. Of course you take more damage from a tree, but the same armor you have should negate the same percentage of damage whether it is from toothpicks or trees, so you still take MUCH more damage from trees, but the armor is accounted the same as with toothpicks.
Honestly GGG, stop trying to reason your way out of this ridiculously nonsensical system when you have no good reason to back it up.
LOOOOOOOOL dude maybe the way "armour" works is a fundamental law of physics that wasn't discovered or something? they can come up with any formula they want what do you mean it "the way it should"?
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Posted by1235on Mar 4, 2013, 9:48:38 PM
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This makes absolutely no sense. What you are saying is that armor magically softens when you get hit by the tree instead of the toothpick. The armor is still the same armor, no matter whether you get hit by the tree or toothpick. Of course you take more damage from a tree, but the same armor you have should negate the same percentage of damage whether it is from toothpicks or trees, so you still take MUCH more damage from trees, but the armor is accounted the same as with toothpicks.
Honestly GGG, stop trying to reason your way out of this ridiculously nonsensical system when you have no good reason to back it up.
i dunno- it made perfect sense to me. Maybe in practice it needs some tweaking, but his explanation was very sound.
Its just like how a car "magically" crumples like paper when getting hit by a semi, yet protects you if hit by a motorcycle.
Last edited by GameQB11 on Mar 4, 2013, 9:51:28 PM
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Posted byGameQB11on Mar 4, 2013, 9:50:17 PM
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This makes absolutely no sense. What you are saying is that armor magically softens when you get hit by the tree instead of the toothpick. The armor is still the same armor, no matter whether you get hit by the tree or toothpick. Of course you take more damage from a tree, but the same armor you have should negate the same percentage of damage whether it is from toothpicks or trees, so you still take MUCH more damage from trees, but the armor is accounted the same as with toothpicks.
Honestly GGG, stop trying to reason your way out of this ridiculously nonsensical system when you have no good reason to back it up.
i dunno- it made perfect sense to me. Maybe in practice it needs some tweaking, but his explanation was very sound.
Its just like how a car "magically" crumples like paper when getting hit by a semi, yet protects you if hit by a motorcycle.
Now you're talking about DAMAGING armor, which takes into account a whole new factor. If this is true as per the game, then why does it "magically" restore itself after every hit? Still makes no sense.
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Posted bytinghshion Mar 4, 2013, 9:59:17 PM
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Armour does provided reduction against any physical damage hit. The bigger the hit, the less percentage damage reduction you get (but a small percentage of a big hit can still be a larger value of damage prevented than a big percentage of a very small hit).
If you put on your full plate mail, and I throw hundreds of toothpicks at you, you'll basically not feel it. If someone catapults a whole tree at you, don't expect the armour to prevent as much of the damage.
This makes absolutely no sense. What you are saying is that armor magically softens when you get hit by the tree instead of the toothpick. The armor is still the same armor, no matter whether you get hit by the tree or toothpick. Of course you take more damage from a tree, but the same armor you have should negate the same percentage of damage whether it is from toothpicks or trees, so you still take MUCH more damage from trees, but the armor is accounted the same as with toothpicks.
Honestly GGG, stop trying to reason your way out of this ridiculously nonsensical system when you have no good reason to back it up.
Ya their "system", they tried to go out and be "smarter than everyone else"... Well, hey, melee is shit. Good job.
Same with Evasion... Go out and attempt to "outwit" the P&P formula that's been going on for decades. Well, hey, melee is shit. Good job.
Maybe... Stop thinking you're smarter than everyone else.
You're obviously not... Desyncs, based off another formula you tried to go "against the grain" on.
STICK WITH TRIED AND TRUE FORMULAS... STOP TRYING TO REINVENT THE WHEEL. I mean you guys continually keep telling us you're a "small company with 20 people", so stop acting like you're a fucking global conglomerate.
You're the ones biting yourselves in the ass... Not us. Then continually using the cop out answers when you get called out on it.
Last edited by StinkFinger on Mar 4, 2013, 10:04:08 PM
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Posted byStinkFingeron Mar 4, 2013, 10:01:59 PM
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Now you're talking about DAMAGING armor, which takes into account a whole new factor. If this is true as per the game, then why does it "magically" restore itself after every hit? Still makes no sense.
I think the point is that armor can only do so much, and I agree that even in a video game it shouldn't make you invincible, because IMO I always found characters that never die due to incredibly high defense to be easy mode.
Note for everyone in this thread: I am not saying that the game's balance is fine, but that the way armor works is a good concept that needs to be tweaked to work properly.
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Posted byVolcanoElixiron Mar 4, 2013, 10:13:03 PM
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