Death Penalties

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thepmrc wrote:

I got a better idea. How about when a hardcore character dies, regardless of realm stability, that character is deleted completely. No rolling to regain HC status, no spilling into default. A hardcore character that dies NEEDS to be completely removed from the server forever.

I hear ya... dropping to default was new to me... but I don't play hardcore. I thought it was interesting and even a good idea... but most purists (like yourself) will argue that it's not true "hardcore". I don't care cuz I don't play hardcore, that would be a discussion for hardcore players. I don't know what most hardcore players would think of that idea, just throwing it out there

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As long as you guys are discussing alternative death penalties I will continue to comment on them. What are you actually suggesting with 'double or nothing', is this referring to the guy who mentioned a decrease to 10% loss for first death and the next death within certain amount of time is increased to 20%? If so, that doesn't sound like a bad idea, convoluted and unnecessary, but it serves the same purpose.

Actually it's not the same thing at all but...
an incremental -5% -10% -15% xp loss capped at 15% sounds like a pretty desecnt idea. Starts at a reasonable loss but gets very punitive if someone is just being reckless or in a area/boss that's over their head... that sounds reasonable.

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EDIT: NVM I read your 'double or nothing' suggestion. Simply terrible. Most of the time when I die personally most mobs are dead so finishing them off is not a real challenge. I could see maybe getting 50% back if you kill the monster that killed you or something of that nature, but completely negating the death breaks the system imo.

You could try commenting without being insulting... but hey, at least you actually read my suggestion before flaming this time.

Killing the guy who finished you off to get 1/2 the xp loss back isn't such a bad idea... but I was thinking more like everyone on screen returns to full life and you have to kill all monsters on screen (or certain radius) in a set amount of time.

clearly this wouldn't work in a party dynamic... but usually there is more than just a single monster that contributes to a death (unless its a boss), and if they aren't returned to full life than it doesn't really prove that you could have beat them... just that you beat them in two tries.

or you could not do it and just take the loss... remember it's a choice.

also, IMO negating the this doesn't break the system. It's a Gamble.

You have successfully complete a feat in order to do it... and don't forget the other side of the coin, if you fail then you get a DOUBLE penalty.

sorry, didn't mean to be insulting. I assume you are referring to where I said the idea was horrible. You kinda pointed out part of the reason yourself there though, it doesn't work at all in a party setting. Neither does being able to get some of the xp back from killing the monster that killed you though... so I guess my idea is horrible too. lol.

In your 'double or nothing' suggestion. If you die again to the same group would you be losing a total of 45% XP then? or a 30% total? Seems it would have to be 45% since 30% would just be the same as dying twice (which you did in this case).

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thepmrc wrote:

sorry, didn't mean to be insulting. I assume you are referring to where I said the idea was horrible. You kinda pointed out part of the reason yourself there though, it doesn't work at all in a party setting. Neither does being able to get some of the xp back from killing the monster that killed you though... so I guess my idea is horrible too. lol.

Well, it would still be OK if it were only for solo play.... many players only play solo. I play 90% solo.

..and putting an xp bonus / bounty on the head of the guy who killed you has merit. that's not a bad idea at all.


I think we both have good ideas.

but for an all around across the board change an incremental -5% -10% -15% with a 5-10min reset timer sounds like the best all around solution.

maybe it's just my Gambling nature.. but I like the option of choosing a "Double or Nothing" bet for solo play.

EDIT: standard Double or Nothing rules after the Gamble/Challenge the result would be either a net zero loss or a 30% loss... but those are just detail that could be ironed out.

well im lvl 79 marauder and im gonna quit for a whle, I have just lost 30%, so its like 3 days for me of playing, its too much that 15% penalty

I prefer a penalty to the future of gameplay and not to the past, it could a debuff or decrease experience for a X time...

sorry for my english

I just thought of a good analogy for the current death penalty.

It is the equivalent of putting a save point at the end of every huge chapter (about 10 hours of gameplay) and anytime you die between save points you go back two hours of gameplay or to the last save point.


.. put it this way, imagine if that applied to Skyrim? Dragon Age? Crysis? \

People would laugh and NOBODY would play it. This analogy is completely similar, it's not like we are playing new content when we die. Nah, really, we are just slowly running out of maps until we have nothing left.

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patrufaldi wrote:

well im lvl 79 marauder and im gonna quit for a whle, I have just lost 30%, so its like 3 days for me of playing, its too much that 15% penalty

I prefer a penalty to the future of gameplay and not to the past, it could a debuff or decrease experience for a X time...

sorry for my english

I feel ya... level 72 here... doing solo docks runs, cuz I don't have good enough gear 4 maps yet.

and I'll clear the entire dock, and I do one little slip up, one mistake, and BOOM! I loose more exp. than I gained for clearing the entire level. I know it only gets worse.

Most days I don't get to play very much... less than an hour... 1 little slip up and the day is a step backwards.

This has made me really focus on upgrading my gear as much as I can, and I've really learned to watch for deathtraps (reflect damage uniques, large mobs of blue fire breathers, etc), so I L2P better? maybe... I learned to play safer.

I really have to take my time, and play ultra safe... but still, just only little slip up and it's all for nothing.

the result is I've been level 72 for about a week and last night I got smacked all the way back to the begining of the level... not fun.

and the truth is it is really unfair to melee characters as the rangers die far less often as it soooooo easy for them to stay out of real damage range and they don't get trapped, surrounded etc.


perhaps another Idea for fix this is to:
have diminishing returns on the xp punishment for a particular level.

for instance, after my first 5 deaths on level 72 instead of 15% xp loss, it could reduce to 10% xp loss, and after 10 deaths reduce to 5%... that way it still has a punishing effect but won't just completely stonewall a person from advancing the character.

well... actually no... the problem is I would just purposely die 15 times at the start of every level to reduce the xp penalty, before I actually try to progress.

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TadaceAce wrote:

I just thought of a good analogy for the current death penalty.

It is the equivalent of putting a save point at the end of every huge chapter (about 10 hours of gameplay) and anytime you die between save points you go back two hours of gameplay or to the last save point.


.. put it this way, imagine if that applied to Skyrim? Dragon Age? Crysis? \

People would laugh and NOBODY would play it. This analogy is completely similar, it's not like we are playing new content when we die. Nah, really, we are just slowly running out of maps until we have nothing left.

I agree.. but the nay sayers would say you're keeping the drops, getting currency, etc.

which may be the case... but you're right, I'm not playing I'm grinding (and grinding, and grinding) the same dang area, over and over (and over and over) and getting smacked down everytime I make one little mistake. it sucks.

I'm grinding to get ahead... but I can't really... I can sort of if I play super, slow and safe.. but even then it's barely possible with the death penalty and the problem is....

I'm only level 72 and it's gonna get much worse =(

I know it's mostly the melee charaters complaining as rangers have a HUGE safety advantage but...

I think the community has put out several good ideas to help the situation, I hope GGG tries to do something.

I see nothing wrong with XP loss at later levels, if you ask me it is a good thing. It prevents the league to be flooded with glass cannon builds focused on dps only(seeing some 5 hit piety kill type of builds with 1k HP). If you die so frequently, change your strategy, revise your skill tree, upgrade your gear. The system works well imho.

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ARKANOiiDe wrote:

I see nothing wrong with XP loss at later levels, if you ask me it is a good thing. It prevents the league to be flooded with glass cannon builds focused on dps only(seeing some 5 hit piety kill type of builds with 1k HP). If you die so frequently, change your strategy, revise your skill tree, upgrade your gear. The system works well imho.

wow... great fucking advice... why didn't I think of that?

I'm not glass cannon. I just died due to desync in a pack of blue fire breathing multi-shot dogs.

all my resists are at 65+, rocking full endurance charges, 3K + life, 6% life leech.

sound glass cannon to you?

I'm flicker strike... melee.. I HAVE to get up close and personal... not a long distance killer. Flicker strike de-syncs, I'm stuck in that pack of death dogs for one second and go from full life to fuck my xp before I know what happens.

yeah... that's fair... maybe I should just change my strategy... read my posts why don't you

OH, I see the problem here... you're a fucking ranger... posts in ranger forums, post in bow threads, trade threads for bows... you are exactly the type of guy I'm talking about.

Try use a melee in high level... especially Flicker Strike which is prone to desync... before you tell me to change my strategy! Not every one is a long distance killer, maybe get close enough to see the action and you'll know WTF I'm talking about.

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SeriousBeatdown wrote:

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ARKANOiiDe wrote:

I see nothing wrong with XP loss at later levels, if you ask me it is a good thing. It prevents the league to be flooded with glass cannon builds focused on dps only(seeing some 5 hit piety kill type of builds with 1k HP). If you die so frequently, change your strategy, revise your skill tree, upgrade your gear. The system works well imho.

wow... great fucking advice... why didn't I think of that.

I'm not glass cannon. I just died due to desync in a pack of blue fire breathing multi-shot dogs.

all resists at 65+, rocking full endurance charges, 3K + life, 6% life leech.

sound glass cannon to you.

I'm flicker strike... melee.. I HAVE to get up close and personal... not a long distance killer. Flicker strike de-syncs, I'm stuck in that pack of death dogs for one second and go from full life to fuck my xp before I know what happens.

yeah... that's fair... maybe I should just change my strategy... read my posts why don't you

OH, I see the problem here... you're a fucking ranger... posts in ranger forums, post is bow forums, trade threads of bows... you are exactly the type of guy I'm talking about.

Try use a melee in high level... especially Flicker Strike which is prone to desync... before you tell me to change my strategy you lo! Not every one is long distance killer, maybe get close enough to see the action and you'll know WTF I'm talking about.

just a suggestion for ya. Use a Ruby flask when farming docks if you have trouble with the dogs. They do pure fire damage and you can easily negate that with the 85% fire resist you can easily attain with a Ruby flask. I have played both melee and ranged (currently playing ranger mostly due to the gear I have found...) so I know there is an imbalance there, but you can still roll stuff pretty easily as melee, but they are much more gear dependent and more reliant on endurance charges / utility flasks (granite/resist) / +% maximum resists and overall tankiness.