Death Penalties

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DAYLEET wrote:

When you die to dsync lag or overall bad balancing out in the wild you didnt screw up, you didnt learn anything you just lost precious time. You can 1) hope to get lucky and no lag this time. 2) Push through while cursing you didnt feat skill point the only way viable that you were told since the start of the game or 3)reroll the map and hope mobs make more sense.

My arguments for a death penalty don't take desync into consideration at all. Desync is a seperate issue entirely. Yes it affects the game and is unfair but you can't balance a game around the fact that it can have bad desync.

If certain enemies are unbalanced/unfair then we need to report that problem not change the death penalty because other parts of the game aren't working correctly.

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iamstryker wrote:

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TheSwampDog wrote:

It is not false. It doesn't make the game ANY harder, it just makes it take longer.

I'm not really sure what the difference is Swamp. Things that are more difficult always take longer. I don't really see where people are coming from who say that they game wouldn't be more difficult. On one hand you play the game and when you die you lose some exp that you then have to regain as a consequence for dieing. If you die A LOT then you simply can not progress in terms of leveling.

You can always progress. You only have to drop down to a lower zone and grind it out more.

My point is this; once you've already died, you died! That teaches the lesson. Subtracting XP after the fact is like a "Oh, we know you just died. But now let's subtract the last hour or two's worth of experience as a fuck you."

How does that make ANY game better?

I have to agree with the posters complaining about the xp penalty. this game is great, but dying makes it less so. Xp lost in merciless translates directly to a specific amount of time lost per build, because some builds are more efficient than others. When I die in merciless, I may have lost my entire day's worth of xp gained, becuase I may only have an hour to play a day. The threat of dying then forces players to group when they may not want to, and forces players to play a build that has been vetted by others on the forums. Or it makes players decide to not play at all. My two cents then is change the penalty. Maybe reduce the percentage lost, or be creative and come up with another system to minimize "abusive leveling behavior."

I can see one of my friends quitting soon because of the death penalty, which in turn would make me want to play less because playing solo is no fun. 15% for every death is a little OTT, if it ramped up it wouldn't be so bad, so the first death would be 5%, then 10% and finally 15%.

a penalty is needed.. but I think the penalty from cruel should also be the same penalty in merciless.

dying in merciless (which is pretty easy to do) makes you wanna just turn the game off instead of trying to recoop several hours of grinding.

Just eliminate softcore and everyone, including former sc players, will be happy.

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Drahken wrote:

a penalty is needed.. but I think the penalty from cruel should also be the same penalty in merciless.

dying in merciless (which is pretty easy to do) makes you wanna just turn the game off instead of trying to recoop several hours of grinding.

I actually have to agree. I dont even remember the last time Ive died due to my own misjudgement. I do still die to the "omfg enemies arent moving - I CANT MOVE EITHER" lag that is caused by absolutely any little thing being done on my network. Every time my son loads gmod server browser, my game nearly pauses for 5 seconds, then plays insta-catch up. Getting 3 bars *again* as a careful melee whos nearing 80 is turning into a frustrating and seemingly unrealistic goal.

Another thing is why in the world does this game require 100% of my network to itself? I literally have been thinking about buying an expensive router with some good QoS options just so I stop dying everytime my wife loads pintrest or my son loads a game (theres 5 of us, so its far more than that). Shit, just him playing a game online I have that "attack, half second it connects" type lag constantly. I have never ever had permanent lag like that in any game in my life except way back when with 56k modems, writing friggin settings and modding drivers myself to get another 100th of a kb.

Really, Im just pissed he killed me again just as I got 3 bars into 78 after Ive told him countless times to tell me before he loads the fucking gmod server browser up. Hes not allowed on the damn pc till Im 3 bars into 78 again, lol. Fair?

/walloftext lol

gotta love when you are desync'd up against a tribal chest and the next thing you know you sync back as you die.

and you lose a few hours worth of experience..

I just thought of an alternate dying penalty on soft-core for fun, not because I'm really against the xp loss.

This sounds like the debuff upon death that WoW had, but here goes:
When you die (targeting merciless, but could be used for cruel too), you get an x minute debuff, which reduces your overall stats and xp gain by a certain percentage during x minutes following death.
----X could be some number calculated based on your character's level; thus, higher level characters get longer duration debuff as penalty.
----the stats reduction (for stats like strength, int, dex, as well as overall offensive/defensive stats like crit chance and elemental resistance, respectively) is mainly to reduce your character effectiveness/survivability. If your stats go below gear/gem requirements, they wouldn't be usable for that duration.
----The debuff stacks; so if you die frequently, you lose more stats and xp gain and potentially can decrease xp (if the debuff on xp gain is -50% xp gain, then you don't gain xp at all when fighting mobs when having 2 stacks. If you die more than that within duration of debuff, you actually lose xp when you kill mobs because you either need to check your internet connection or your gaming strategy). The actual xp loss percentage can be adjusted so that you enter into 0/negative xp gain territory with the first debuff, if that'll make it seem more cut throat.
----If you die with a debuff, its duration gets refreshed as well as adding a stack.
----The debuff does not go away if you close the game then login again.


Potential benefits: Players wouldn't feel like they are robbed of their past time investment since they keep their current xp; rather, the debuff is a tax on future playing.

Potential problems: this might cause players to drop out of groups and stop playing this current character for the duration of the debuff if the xp gain is reduced to 0 or into negative territory. The current system at least allows players to continue playing to get back lost xp.


This is just an unnecessarily complicated way of delaying xp gain. I had fun thinking it up though haha.

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wutengyuxi wrote:

----the stats reduction (for stats like strength, int, dex, as well as overall offensive/defensive stats like crit chance and elemental resistance, respectively) is mainly to reduce your character effectiveness/survivability. If your stats go below gear/gem requirements, they wouldn't be usable for that duration.

Debuff isn't a bad idea, but making a character unusable because of being unable to use it's equipment IS bad idea. They can't really expect a character to regear. That just means they quit playing or switch characters.

Most my characters skill gems are maxed out to the stats.... so the moment I die I can't use my character. 1 accidental death and you hit a wall. Die once on a boss and you can't finish them. Bad idea... a debuff that still lets you use your equipment would be acceptable.

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----If you die with a debuff, its duration gets refreshed as well as adding a stack.

refresh fine... stack.... ouch... I hope not... but if gear is usalbe and the stack is capped at 2 or 3.. thats way better than current system.

The idea is to give a penalty that makes the user still want to play the game... or play more... not quit.

Stealing hard earned xp so that 20-30 minutes of play makes you end up with less xp than where you started... that causes RAGE and makes a person want to quit.

Having 1 accidental death break a character so that he can't use his gear, means he has NO chance of returning to overcome the challenge that just killed him.

It's a penalty box that forces him to stop play. Again, user quits altogether, or grudingly play another character pissed off. This is almost hardcore cuz what that means is you got ONLY 1 CHANCE to beat that boss / pack / whatever before your character is broken and you simply can't play.

Again, this is a penalty that forces a person to quit. NOT a good idea.

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Potential benefits: Players wouldn't feel like they are robbed of their past time investment since they keep their current xp; rather, the debuff is a tax on future playing.

great idea as long as future play is possible / no broken equip.

I'd say nerf XP for 5 min and leave it at that... maybe nerf run speed, armour, attack speed for future stacks... capped at when all debuffs are active with a refresh on the 5 min timer.


Again.. the punishment should be a detriment... something to make us want to avoid death but still makes us want to play or make us want to play more... NOT something that breaks a character or is too harsh... remember it's "soft" core.