Death Penalties

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Xeledon2132 wrote:

That was entirely the point however. Make level 100 doable for everyone - why not?

...

Does my proposition fail at that? Am I missing something?

I believe you are. The why not- it's nice that we have one, just one level-based game where every person you see in town isn't capped.

Capping your level in this game is something special, that very few people can actually achieve. Games, especially online games these days are lacking in that way. The problem isn't necessarily that 100 is hard to get, it's that too many people have the mindset that capping is a thing you have to strive for.

I see where you are coming from now. I did indeed miss that perspective.
It boils down to a matter of taste.
To me it still seems "special enough" - not everyone would have the stamina to go to level 100 under the system proposed, just a few more than do now. Seeing a level 100 would still be awe inspring to me.

You are right that level 100 isn't something one should necessarily strive for (though it is probably only human wanting to go all the way). And I believe most would still quit trying because of the amount of time it would still consume.
I just think that the feeling this system would create - that you can always make a tiny amout of progress, that playing the game won't ever worsen your position - would benefit the game as a whole.

I don't have a problem with the penalty, but it does make end game incentives....weird. I plan my build to be done by 85, because you have to be fully functional by then anyway. After that point, I *might* grind up but....why? Anything critical to the build I have, and I've already over leveled literally all of the game's content.

At that point, what do I care about the penalty? I don't need levels. If I'm running maps solo I still get all the drops. What's the benefit to not dying? A couple more skill points I don't need and have minimal impact on my build (or I would have taken them already)? An insignificant amount of life? And I have to grind like mad in 75+ maps to get that?

The death penalty is fine. The lack of death reward is lacking. There's a stick, but there's no carrot.

I am sorry but I don't have the time to read through more than 150 pages of posts. (So please feel free to ignore my post. It's only fair.)

From a few pages of reading though, there seems to be a clear divide between people who want PoE to be more competitive (i.e. death should be penalized) and people who do not want to spend extra hours of grinding due to making a mistake or even due to desync (i.e. lesson the penalty please).

Keeping this in mind, shouldn't the death penalty be different between leagues?

The standard league is clearly for the casual players. Perhaps the death penalty should be less in the standard league compared to other competitive leagues. Heck, in competitive leagues, make it 20% penalty so that it REALLY hurts if you die. (Disclaimer: I am a casual player.)



As a casual player in the standard league, I do wish for (just in the standard league):

- A mechanism to restore (at least partially) lost experience. Perhaps with in-game currency, or by going back and killing the monster that killed you. (But what if you are killed by a map mod?)

- A mechanism that prevents repetitive experience loss from getting killed by the same monster. This one is more important to me than the first one, because when I meet a difficult monster and die, I want to try to fight the monster again and overcome the difficulty rather than skipping the monster entirely in fear of losing more experience. 10% experience loss often really puts me off trying to beat difficult monsters again and again.

- And perhaps some rewards for not dying - e.g. small increase in character size for each level gained without dying, or possibly light radius... or even some IIQ/IIR? Maybe a refund point alongside the skill point. Anything that can be thought of as a good-to-have but not overly game-affecting.

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Atom4geVampire wrote:

An MMO I used to work on...

Is this MMO still around? Did it ever get published? I'm curious to know what it is.

Make it harder;

10% Normal
25% Cruel
50% Merciless

This will stop YOLO Glass Cannon builds in Standard.
This will also stop being careless in Standard because 50% XP loss at high levels is insane.
Therefore this will also stop HC vs SC discussion as it will require a well balanced build to reach 90+ levels even in SC.

HC players don't really care about this anyway, once you die it's all gone. Not just some xp.

Bring on deleveling!

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rockmassif wrote:

Make it harder;

10% Normal
25% Cruel
50% Merciless

This will stop YOLO Glass Cannon builds in Standard.
This will also stop being careless in Standard because 50% XP loss at high levels is insane.
Therefore this will also stop HC vs SC discussion as it will require a well balanced build to reach 90+ levels even in SC.

HC players don't really care about this anyway, once you die it's all gone. Not just some xp.

Such a brilliant idea, lets go farther, lets remove characters from the game even on SC, this will require even more BALANCED build to reach lvl 90+, since SC is not about FUN, its about BALANCE PAIN AND STRUGGLE.

I said it many times in similar discussions and I still stand behind my reasoning to dislike death penalty as it is implemented in PoE.

I would not mind experience loss as a result of death if it would be possible to regain lost experience in reasonable time. This would require that sufficiently high level easy-to-repeat content is available instead of lvl67 (+1 for corrupted areas). I cant justify loss of hours of grinding at around lvl90.

Most common rebuke for my argument would be mapping, however, mapping at sufficiently high level is not easily sustainable nor even fully effective as past lvl90 you incurr penalties in all maps already, even those lvl78. Also, be frank to admit that you will still be running mid-tier maps most of the time anyway simply because you wont have 100s and 100s of lvl78 maps to kill in.

So yes, I rage at times when I die because the penalty is so disproportionate to speed, at which I can gain experience.

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rockmassif wrote:

Make it harder;

10% Normal
25% Cruel
50% Merciless

This will stop YOLO Glass Cannon builds in Standard.
This will also stop being careless in Standard because 50% XP loss at high levels is insane.
Therefore this will also stop HC vs SC discussion as it will require a well balanced build to reach 90+ levels even in SC.

HC players don't really care about this anyway, once you die it's all gone. Not just some xp.

Im all for this if every thing in the game was nerfed to be worth it

Right now if your not path of life nodes you die... alot and with the desync and rubberbanding (just died on HC to rubberbanding back into center of box...)

I don't think alot of people would even lvl or play high lvls anymore if it was 50% and everything didn't get nerfed


I have a glass cannon and its dps is worse then my block tank somehow yet my block tank can map easy if i don't get hit back to back to much and my dps char gets rekted by everything :D