Death Penalties

I also find the penalties extremely frustrating. Either completely remove dsync and any kind of lag MY connection can create(solo) or remove the death penalty.

Comming from both d2 and d3 i never played softcore beside my very first char and never beyond norm diff. This whole xp penalty is weird an alien to me in a mode where i thought i could lay back and enjoy the ride, instead it become a lot more frustrating than HC because i have to play as if it was hc. This being Beta i figured i might stick to softcore on all my char till it's deemed retail worthy and boy with all the bs death(LOTS of balance needs to be done) going around and extreme requirement for a build/gear to be viable i thought to my self that was the best decision ever.

When i heard in global about hc being transfered to softcore i though they were realy funny troll sending noobs to a dumb death and awaited the rage in global when one would come back. Weeks later i learn it is true and there is no death, no real hc! So softcore can't just have a great time and hardcore dont have to fear death (since it's only a conscious choice that is self enforced and therefore is no different than softcore in any way).

Make another league if you have, call it something petty and demeaning if you must, where theres no death penalty. I know ill go play there until all the polishing/balancing/dsync/lag issues are gone and until a real hardcore mode is implemented. And im pretty sure 90% softcore would move over.

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DAYLEET wrote:

I also find the penalties extremely frustrating. Either completely remove dsync and any kind of lag MY connection can create(solo) or remove the death penalty.

Comming from both d2 and d3 i never played softcore beside my very first char and never beyond norm diff.

Then play poe in normal difficulty... voila you have no death penalty.

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DAYLEET wrote:

Make another league if you have, call it something petty and demeaning if you must, where theres no death penalty. I know ill go play there until all the polishing/balancing/dsync/lag issues are gone and until a real hardcore mode is implemented. And im pretty sure 90% softcore would move over.

Or they could just call it softcore.... currently there is hardcore and default. I am sorry if the default difficulty is too much for you.

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DAYLEET wrote:

Either completely remove dsync and any kind of lag MY connection can create(solo) or remove the death penalty.

Well, that is not possible. Desync is present in every online game and there is no way for GGG to fix lag on YOUR connection.... D3 had just as much desync as PoE and it had 1000x the resources available, ffs don't you think you expect a little too much?

I play both HC and Default. My default character is in Merciless.

I'm fine with the death penalty. For me, it makes surviving feel more special. When I survive a tough fight, it has more meaning. I usually immediately tell a friend that I killed merciless "insert name" and lived (I solo everything too).

I fight to stay alive just as I do in HC. To me it wouldn't be as much fun to go in repeatedly to kill the boss. If I want to do that I will play a platform game or something.

<Time for..When I was younger...>

I use to play EQ. I never celebrated a "ding" until I was at least a fourth/half into the next level. The reason is that if I died shortly after leveling I would delevel. It was great. The death penalty in that game was far greater than in POE.

I know everyone's opinion will vary. I'm sure it is not fun or enjoyable for many. I just wanted to give another opinion.

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thepmrc wrote:

Then play poe in normal difficulty... voila you have no death penalty.

WTH are you talking about, one would expect a closed beta supporter to have played the game once. Or are you just trolling bringing nothing to the conversation?

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thepmrc wrote:

Or they could just call it softcore.... currently there is hardcore and default. I am sorry if the default difficulty is too much for you.

Are you realy sorry or are you just using that reply to make fun of someone for no other reason than occupy your time? Though that would explain why you made no sense in the first reply you gave.

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thepmrc wrote:

Well, that is not possible...

I know that and that was part of my point... While you didnt get it i know Chris did. Considering your past reply to my single post you failed to go batshitloco on me mentioning "Solo" which is the only thing that can be done to fix the dsync and lag and will obviously NEVER happen(please don't tell us why we know already...). I know Chris got that to but i wanted you to know it too because it was also part of my point. Something need to be done about both: Default not working against me and Hardcore having a reason to exist in this state of the game.

In a game where only Donation keeps you alive it might not be wise to think "In a year the game will be ironed out and the problem of xp penalty wont be as harsh and penalising so we will wait and do nothing about it", just saying.

EDIT> By solo i was implying Offline and i understand that it was misleading. You are free to go thermonuclear on that mistake of mine.

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Skitzi wrote:

I'm fine with the death penalty. For me, it makes surviving feel more special. When I survive a tough fight, it has more meaning. I usually immediately tell a friend that I killed merciless "insert name" and lived (I solo everything too).

I do the same, it has nothing to do about not losing xp but everything to do about killing a hard boss on 1 life. Bosses are not where dsync lad and overall bad balancing lies. I don't remember the last time i died on a Boss that wasnt my fault or just ridiculous requirement not met(well except that one time Vaal hammered me when i was in his back but wasnt). keep the penalty for the end boss if you want i dont care it's a very small/short part of the game and not the frustrating one.

I could understand the Elite feeling in hardcore in Diablo, i can't understand it here in both hardcore or softcore.

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DAYLEET wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Then play poe in normal difficulty... voila you have no death penalty.

WTH are you talking about, one would expect a closed beta supporter to have played the game once. Or are you just trolling bringing nothing to the conversation?

I see, you only played 'softcore' through normal and played hardcore... yet you complain about a 15% death penalty? Seems odd to me. Regardless of server stability.

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DAYLEET wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Or they could just call it softcore.... currently there is hardcore and default. I am sorry if the default difficulty is too much for you.

Are you realy sorry or are you just using that reply to make fun of someone for no other reason than occupy your time? Though that would explain why you made no sense in the first reply you gave.

You suggested they call it something demeaning... I suggest they call it what all the people clamoring for no death penalty call default. That doesn't seem at all trollish, in fact it seems reasonable to me.

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DAYLEET wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

Well, that is not possible...

I know that and that was part of my point... While you didnt get it i know Chris did. Considering your past reply to my single post you failed to go batshitloco on me mentioning "Solo" which is the only thing that can be done to fix the dsync and lag and will obviously NEVER happen(please don't tell us why we know already...). I know Chris got that to but i wanted you to know it too because it was also part of my point. Something need to be done about both: Default not working against me and Hardcore having a reason to exist in this state of the game.

In a game where only Donation keeps you alive it might not be wise to think "In a year the game will be ironed out and the problem of xp penalty wont be as harsh and penalising so we will wait and do nothing about it", just saying.

EDIT> By solo i was implying Offline and i understand that it was misleading. You are free to go thermonuclear on that mistake of mine.

Gotcha. Offline SP mode would be cool, but never gonna happen.

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TheSwampDog wrote:

It is not false. It doesn't make the game ANY harder, it just makes it take longer.

I'm not really sure what the difference is Swamp. Things that are more difficult always take longer. I don't really see where people are coming from who say that they game wouldn't be more difficult. On one hand you play the game and when you die you lose some exp that you then have to regain as a consequence for dieing. If you die A LOT then you simply can not progress in terms of leveling. On the other hand you have a game where you progress even if you DIE A LOT. One of these sounds a whole lot easier than the other. Without a death penalty you don't have to care nearly as much about your build and especially about defenses.

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thepmrc wrote:

Then play poe in normal difficulty... voila you have no death penalty.

Im the one who didnt get it the first time so im quoting it again. Well i could only play in normal and then quit the game. That wouldnt fix anything though. A lot of people think it needs to be fixd.

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thepmrc wrote:

I see, you only played 'softcore' through normal and played hardcore... yet you complain about a 15% death penalty? Seems odd to me. Regardless of server stability.

In D2-3, i wanted to give a background to my arpg gaming habit. In Poe im going to stick default until something is done about both sc and hc.

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thepmrc wrote:

You suggested they call it something demeaning... I suggest they call it what all the people clamoring for no death penalty call default. That doesn't seem at all trollish, in fact it seems reasonable to me.

I quoted too much, i was only referring to the "sorry part"

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iamstryker wrote:

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TheSwampDog wrote:

It is not false. It doesn't make the game ANY harder, it just makes it take longer.

I'm not really sure what the difference is Swamp. Things that are more difficult always take longer. I don't really see where people are coming from who say that they game wouldn't be more difficult. On one hand you play the game and when you die you lose some exp that you then have to regain as a consequence for dieing. If you die A LOT then you simply can not progress in terms of leveling. On the other hand you have a game where you progress even if you DIE A LOT. One of these sounds a whole lot easier than the other. Without a death penalty you don't have to care nearly as much about your build and especially about defenses.

You don't differentiate Difficulty with Time investment. Harder versus longer.

For exemple, the first time you met the bosses, they were difficult, you had to learn what to do and even now you need to play right. Its timed jumping through hoops but the closest thing we can hope to call skills in an arpg.

When you die to dsync lag or overall bad balancing out in the wild you didnt screw up, you didnt learn anything you just lost precious time. You can 1) hope to get lucky and no lag this time. 2) Push through while cursing you didnt feat skill point the only way viable that you were told since the start of the game or 3)reroll the map and hope mobs make more sense.

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RamzaBehoulve wrote:

People whine because their time invested is nullified, not because they died based on the game difficulty.

your time investment isn't exactly nullified. You still made progress in the game, collected currency, rares, alterations whatever. You also should be gaining in exp at least a little at a time unless you die a ton or if your very high level and already had a lot of exp to lose.

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RamzaBehoulve wrote:

XP penalty on death punishes time invested. It does not make the gamer any harder. There is no difficulty in leveling up, it is just a matter of time.

I am trying to see where people are coming from on these statements but I just don't see it. The game is more challenging because in order to progress you have to figure out how TO STOP DIEING. Some players will not be able to do this and will have to either reroll or will quit the game out of frustration. I can also give more than one example of how the game would be FAR EASIER without a death penalty.

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RamzaBehoulve wrote:

The best way I can explain this to you is this : if my goal is to level up, I will not go in merciless until I'm lvl 56+ and then I will bottom farm with at least 5 levels above recommended. Using this method, leveling is super easy, almost no difficulty and no risk of death, however my time investment will be much higher than if taking the risk to play at recommended level in Merciless.

Sounds like a boring way to play. Personally I would rather not play the game than play like that. The way I see it is if you took the time to do all of that easy leveling then you deserve the benefits of your time investment. These kinds of games are mostly about time investment so I feel if you put that much time into making your character and progressing that cautiously then you deserve to be rewarded for that. You cared enough to play in the most boring way possible to get an end game character. However you CAN NOT grind the end game like that. It would take ABSOLUTELY FOREVER once you get around level 75. Eventually in order to progress you have to take on the challenges. Also there really isn't much of a reason to grind like you mentioned because you can always play in a party which makes the game a lot easier.

The death penalty keeps people from playing really dumb. The game itself isn't that hard.

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RamzaBehoulve wrote:

The game is already very unforgiving of mistakes in Merciless, you already lose a lot of time from just dieing over and over which should naturally make someone understands they are not yet ready. Further punishing their time investment in the game is detrimental to most people enjoyment.

You said yourself that the player is not yet ready so how is it that they are punished unfairly for their own mistakes?

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RamzaBehoulve wrote:

I can already guarantee you that most people reaching Merciless and not gaining XP for over an hour of play because they died a few times are not going to stick around. I'm pretty sure GGG is also aware of that statistic.

IMO those players weren't going to stick around anyway. From my experience they are the players that wanted a game to finish quickly and then to move on to a different game. If they really wanted to play this game a long time then they wouldn't mind putting in the effort to learn how to not die and reroll new characters until they have the game figured out.

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RamzaBehoulve wrote:

Heavy XP loss on death is an old mechanic that should never have been brought back in a game. There are other ways to make someone understand they need to stop dieing and must improve.

Then make some other suggestions. I just don't want to see people asking for no death penalty at all. A good death penalty needs to be there.