unique items *no longer updated*

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Mathil wrote:

What's amusing to me is for all the talk of how OP or broken an item is for x or y build, you're still not coming remotely close to the current state of discharge builds.

You could have 15 of those axes strapped to your forehead as a cleaver or you could look like a mummy with those belts wrapping your entire body as a CI wander and yet still a discharger is going to run through the game 100x faster.

So I guess all I'm saying is if you want to complain, there's better things to do it on.

discharge is clunky and uses a number of items with very noticeable downsides. volls devotion is pretty powerful but the shortened charges makes it hard to travel from one pack to the next without losing them all, and massive one-shot AoE elemental damage doesn't exactly scream survivable with the way elemental reflect works.

it also has to use a terrible chest with a mere 60ish energy shield, and has no resists on it, no MF on the amulet, and is overall rather difficult to play.

and no, they don't clear faster than cleavers, atleast not cleavers with one of these monstrosities.

nothing comes close to quill rain EA+EE+dual curse but for some reason i never see that being discussed, not really sure why, easily the most powerful build in the game and not expensive to build either, unlike cleavers/dischargers/shavs anythingers.

I'd still like to know where people are coming up with power creep. The game is unfinished. Of course it's going to get new items that are better than before. When ggg releases the full game and say ok we are out of beta. That is when they need to watch for power creep. Everyone is still acting like this is the full and final game. There is no end game yet. Not to mention who's to say what new and fun stuff will be added in the game before release.

Some unique's have utility that make them last forever, dream frag for example. However, items such as lionseye and the new axe I see those becoming less powerful before the game is fully released. Lionseye has already been beat by rares in game.

You have to get pretty lucky on the rare drops but it's possible for the axe as well. As far as not costing mana that's a convenience imo. Only time mana is ever really a issue for me is the mid game. When fully leveled and my build is good I rarely have mana issues.

EDIT: Wanted to add one more thing. I've noticed people are all about the numbers here lately and saying certain builds are viable while others are not. To me this is a clear case of comparing a shotgun and a fly swatter to kill a fly. They both work but talk about over kill with the shotgun

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Mathil wrote:

What's amusing to me is for all the talk of how OP or broken an item is for x or y build, you're still not coming remotely close to the current state of discharge builds.

You could have 15 of those axes strapped to your forehead as a cleaver or you could look like a mummy with those belts wrapping your entire body as a CI wander and yet still a discharger is going to run through the game 100x faster.

So I guess all I'm saying is if you want to complain, there's better things to do it on.

The difference is that any time they like, the devs could decide to nerf Discharge, or bring in new skills that are just as good. But they won't nerf OP items, because it would be 'unfair' to players who spent a lot on acquiring those items. The result is that we are slowly moving from a game where randomly generated items can be the best, and everyone has slightly different mods, to one where for a given build, there is a unique best item, far better than the alternatives, so everyone with that kind of build will aspire to the exact same gear setup. We're not in a bad place yet overall, but I don't like the direction things are going.

I don't know what specs you're possibly thinking can compare with running everywhere perma quicksilver flasked, balls deep into groups of mobs and one shotting the entire screen with 1 button press in a 6 player map.

I know they CAN nerf it, but haven't and right now playing with dischargers is pointless unless you're just after a free carry because you literally don't get the chance to use an attack.

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rahven32 wrote:

I'd still like to know where people are coming up with power creep. The game is unfinished. Of course it's going to get new items that are better than before. When ggg releases the full game and say ok we are out of beta. That is when they need to watch for power creep. Everyone is still acting like this is the full and final game. There is no end game yet. Not to mention who's to say what new and fun stuff will be added in the game before release.

Some unique's have utility that make them last forever, dream frag for example. However, items such as lionseye and the new axe I see those becoming less powerful before the game is fully released. Lionseye has already been beat by rares in game.

You have to get pretty lucky on the rare drops but it's possible for the axe as well. As far as not costing mana that's a convenience imo. Only time mana is ever really a issue for me is the mid game. When fully leveled and my build is good I rarely have mana issues.

power creep is occurring now because items are being added that are permanent. when the game is 'done' (hint, thats in about 6-7 years) these items will still exist, and future items and builds will be based off of them. some of these items are extremely powerful to the point of obsoleting every alternative for all eternity until something else even more ridiculously powerful comes along.

the problem is, they can't just remove the items. if everyone's shavronnes just disappeared one day or were horrendously nerfed nobody would play the game anymore as all trust in the developer would be out the window. the only way they can fix the introduction of these powerful items is by not introducing any more and balancing the rest of the game around them with some small buffs and minor nerfs to various builds to bring everything closer to a common ground. instead, they're adding more absurdly powerful items and obsoleting even more of the games content.

there are some uniques that do last forever, thats true, and a few of those are actually designed well. doedre's tenure can be used forever with the right build, so can dream fragments and quill rain and a number of other decent uniques that are interesting, good for a specific purpose, but otherwise underwhelming. the point however is that these have significant drawbacks and/or only work for a select few builds.

items like shavronnes, this new axe, that new belt, the new boots, these work for a great many builds, with no drawbacks, and are easily best in slot for the vast majority of builds that they work for, and will never be replaced. we'll still be using shavronnes in a year unless something more ridiculous comes out or the game's fundamental mechanics are overhauled completely, both of which i sincerely hope do not happen. i'm here playing PoE because i like the idea of a slightly unbalanced game, like diablo 2 but with more player control and more viable builds and a little less punitive and grindy, but PoE is steadily crawling farther and farther from its own promised design concepts and that is terrifying me to the core.

and just so you know, this is release. its a beta, sure, but the game works, it has a solid amount of content, they're accepting money for in-game items, there are no more wipes, and for most people the client is stable. you can slap an open beta tag on it for as long as you want, doesn't change the nature of the beast. i don't know what you envision happening between now and the game being 'finished' other than a lot more acts and unique items. more acts are great as long as they're not as un-fun as act 3, but more unique items i dread, because i fear the day that this becomes hammerdin 2.0: nothing else is viable, the game.

" but PoE is steadily crawling farther and farther from its own promised design concepts and that is terrifying me to the core."

I sincerely hope this is an exaggeration.

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Powerturnip wrote:

" but PoE is steadily crawling farther and farther from its own promised design concepts and that is terrifying me to the core."

I sincerely hope this is an exaggeration.

I too just vomited out of sheer terror of them possibly changing the game.

Deal with it.

When the game is considered released I fully expect higher level items for one. I also expect these items to be better than what we currently have. If they continue to add stuff after release that is questionable I will start to worry. Regardless whether you think this is release or not it isn't. As long as it still has the beta tag it's beta.

Think of it this way. Lets pretend PoE was done like D3 (yeah horrible game but works for this example). They could of added all these items and more and no one would have said a word about power creep because they would of already been in the game when we all got to play it.

It is literally impossible for power creep to exist in a beta in the manner people are talking about here. Yes items gradually have gotten better. That is to be expected of a unfinished game. A really good example of power creep is WoW and how blizzard does the expansions. Every new expansion totally and completely makes all gear previous null and void. That is power creep.

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Powerturnip wrote:

" but PoE is steadily crawling farther and farther from its own promised design concepts and that is terrifying me to the core."

I sincerely hope this is an exaggeration.

i'm trying to find the design manifesto for unique items that they posted a long time ago, before a2 had a boss, that detailed how they were striving to design uniques that aren't the best, and aren't better than rares, and will add flavor and variety to the game instead of just forcing everyone into cookie cutters.

you know, the opposite of what they're doing now. give me a few minutes to find it and i'll post it here.

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Mathil wrote:

I too just vomited out of sheer terror of them possibly changing the game.

Deal with it.

no. i play this game, and i want it to be good. apathy towards something you care about is a sign of psychopathy, not a desirable trait. i was excited about the game a while ago and they seem to be becoming hypocritical towards their past promises, and that scares me, as i want to keep playing path of exile, and for me to continue to do that it must continue to be good and hopefully get better, not worse.

People shouldn't be too worried about these uniques. It seems that GGG will be sort of following MTG's way of dealing with OP items. Standard (and in some way Hardcore) will be like the equivalent of vintage with every unique available while the 4 month ladders will have banned lists just like what they're doing right now.