Leave trading alone, don't waste resources on it

"

How am I supposed to care about this point? GGG isn't going to make the economy any better in standard so obviously I am going to want a better trading system. I don't give a shit if trading is better in the temporary leagues, I don't play there, end of story.

They don't control the economy, they can't wave their magic wand and make your issues go away. If the current system sucks for you, any system they implement will suck. I understand you don't play in the leagues, but you need to keep in mind no one wants shit like this:



Those gloves aren't perfect or even that great, they have attackspeed, life and some armor, but in standard people have better. That would sell in the leagues, but not in standard.

"

One big advantage of trade chat is that you are both online to trade right then. Forums you have that extra bit of difficulty meeting up with people. But no I haven't traded a gem through the forums in forever.

I understand that trade chat provides this benefit of knowing both you and the other player is online at the same time. Trade chat is something people truly under-appreciate.

"

They don't control the economy, they can't wave their magic wand and make your issues go away.

Hence why I never asked for the economy to be improved. I would like to see some improvements in the trading systems since they have yet to make any of the improvements that they have talked about up until now.

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If the current system sucks for you, any system they implement will suck.

A better system would logically make the situation better in one way or another.

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goetzjam wrote:

I understand that trade chat provides this benefit of knowing both you and the other player is online at the same time. Trade chat is something people truly under-appreciate.

Trade chat is an archaic piece of crap. I don't under appreciate a system where you have to constantly spam the screen in competition with other people spamming the screen in hopes someone will PM you after seeing your ad through the stream of shit.

"

Hence why I never asked for the economy to be improved. I would like to see some improvements in the trading systems since they have yet to make any of the improvements that they have talked about up until now.

"improvements" won't fix your situation, read below

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A better system would logically make the situation better in one way or another.

Your missing the point here, if your items don't sell right now from being listed on the forums, they won't sell later by any sort of system added. Especially a system that rex has been talking about. Standards ECONOMY is the issue you have here, not the trade system.

I can easily prove this to you if you link me your shop thread.

"

Trade chat is an archaic piece of crap. I don't under appreciate a system where you have to constantly spam the screen in competition with other people spamming the screen in hopes someone will PM you after seeing your ad through the stream of shit.

Yet trade chat is only one out of the many methods to initiate trades.

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goetzjam wrote:

If the current system sucks for you, any system they implement will suck.

I don't know why you requote this as if it's a meaningful point, but it isn't. It's a logically fallacious argument. It's like saying, "If you don't like red vans, you won't like any vehicles." It's obvious how false it is simply in the stating of it.

However, I'll wait and see what system "overhaul" they put in, try it out, and consider my position on it at that time. I've made my case and then some here, and we both know how the other sees it. I just don't think there's much more to be said on the subject (at least, not between us).

I hope it's a good one. I'm tired of the "trade system" so far.

"

AlbinosaurusRex wrote:

"

goetzjam wrote:

If the current system sucks for you, any system they implement will suck.

I don't know why you requote this as if it's a meaningful point, but it isn't. It's a logically fallacious argument. It's like saying, "If you don't like red vans, you won't like any vehicles." It's obvious how false it is simply in the stating of it.

However, I'll wait and see what system "overhaul" they put in, try it out, and consider my position on it at that time. I've made my case and then some here, and we both know how the other sees it. I just don't think there's much more to be said on the subject (at least, not between us).

I hope it's a good one. I'm tired of the "trade system" so far.

Don't appreciate the cherry pick of statement, his problem is he can't sell items in standard, when he list his shop we can see why. I made a clear compassion of an item that sells in the leagues that doesn't sell in standard.

While you can take 1 phrase out of context and try to twist it it doesn't change the fact his issues are solely ECONOMIC BASED.


We don't even know if you use the current system, IIRC I asked you to link your shop as well.

Was only a cherry pick because you reposted it as if it had merits of its own. It doesn't even have merit when coupled with any other statements.

As for if I use the current system, I no longer do. I tried it for awhile like a year or so ago, but hated the whole process, said "fuck it," and actually moved on to other games for awhile. This is one of the reasons I fervently advocate for a better system. This one sucks.

Regarding your economy vs trade argument with stryker, I just don't see how you comparing a random item you found (or had) that nobody would buy in either league is any less of a cherry pick. The reason it won't sell isn't because it's a mediocre item--it's because the current system demands that only items worth the time and hassle of trading get traded, so there isn't a lot of competition for items like that, and they are easily overshadowed by better items.

That item might sell to the right buyer if they were looking for a minor upgrade and the price was right (maybe an alch, probably less), but most people won't bother listing something like that because of the assumption that nobody would buy it. This kind of circular logic is why the current system keeps those items off the market, and why such a trade system is backwards.

I feel like I'm not describing this properly, but many of your posts deal in absolutes, and are views shared by a fair portion of the people wanting to preserve the status quo. Those views are responsible for the stagnation of this game's economy, and I am among many who find it distasteful. If only the top 5% of items are worth trading, why bother even having any content below level 75? It's a shitty system.

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]Was only a cherry pick because you reposted it as if it had merits of its own. It doesn't even have merit when coupled with any other statements.

That is your opinion, if an item won't sell now because of the economy an item won't sell later with an AH or whatever system you add in.

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As for if I use the current system, I no longer do. I tried it for awhile like a year or so ago, but hated the whole process, said "fuck it," and actually moved on to other games for awhile. This is one of the reasons I fervently advocate for a better system. This one sucks.

So you are complaining about the current system when you don't bother to use it, do you even know what improvements both poe.trade and procurement have made? I can say its pretty ignorant to complain about a system you simply won't use because it has tools that make using the official forums easier.

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Regarding your economy vs trade argument with stryker, I just don't see how you comparing a random item you found (or had) that nobody would buy in either league is any less of a cherry pick. The reason it won't sell isn't because it's a mediocre item--it's because the current system demands that only items worth the time and hassle of trading get traded, so there isn't a lot of competition for items like that, and they are easily overshadowed by better items.

I can list much more then 1 random item. That was simply a statement with an easy example I had at hand. The current situation in STANDARD demands that the item have much better rolls, however in the leagues an item like that WOULD sell to the right person. Someone that doesn't need resistances on gloves but rather attackspeed, armor and good life.

You say the item is mediocre and if I had to guess most of what stryker wants to sell is mediocre again this is an economy issue with not enough players needing items that are mediocre. Until we see his shop\items we can't know for sure.

"

That item might sell to the right buyer if they were looking for a minor upgrade and the price was right (maybe an alch, probably less), but most people won't bother listing something like that because of the assumption that nobody would buy it. This kind of circular logic is why the current system keeps those items off the market, and why such a trade system is backwards.

Its never worth it to sell an item for less then an alch, unless your afk in town and a guildmember or something wants an item you have. Leaving a map, ect to sell isn't worth the time from an efficiency standpoint. At the same time I'd list this item after I finish sorting out my standard stash (i've played in every SC temp league so far) with using procurement for 1-2 alchs. I may asked the player what build they are using it for or what other upgrades they need and try to sell them more at the same time. This is how you make a trade for 1-2 alchs worth MORE, you communicate with the buyer. At the same time if this player is newer (its pretty easy to tell) i'll give him the item and maybe some low level maps.

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I feel like I'm not describing this properly, but many of your posts deal in absolutes, and are views shared by a fair portion of the people wanting to preserve the status quo. Those views are responsible for the stagnation of this game's economy, and I am among many who find it distasteful.

The stagnation of standards economy has to do with the inability to remove items from it (aside from vaal orbs) and after GGG moved the default starting position to the SC temp league. Again this issue has to do with economy and the lack of removal rather then the lack of introduction of a new system.

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If only the top 5% of items are worth trading, why bother even having any content below level 75? It's a shitty system.

Top 5% of what items, every item that drops ever? Rares with 2-3 good stats before master crafting? I found this belt in a lower level map yesterday: As for why do content below 75 in standard, there really isn't a reason to, you won't get the best possible tier rolls, that is an itemization thing, one that GGG has so item progression is over time, we see this in the temp leagues have great effect, problem is in standard very few people need mediocre things, a new way to trade won't fix that, which just further strengthens my point about if the current system doesn't work for you, neither will a new one.



That thing would be worth a small fortune in the temp leagues, but in standard I won't get that because the economy doesn't call for that to be worth it.


tl;dr the vast majority of players in standard look for upgrades that they won't later replace, rather then what players in temp leagues do which is damage sidegrades or upgrades until they either a)find something better themselves or b) can afford something better.

You can't fix an economic\itemization problem with a new trade system.

Bored waiting in line at DMV.

So goetz is essentially right here. The economy is completely separate from the trading system, until/unless you force a specific item to transactions (ex: D3 gold AH). That isn't the case here; you could trade gear for gear, you just don't, because that's what the community decided.

Economy is nothing more than itemization experienced by people. Your own personal item valuations are an economy of one, determining which items are equipped, stashed, crafted on, or vendored; community consensus on item value is the economy at large. The important bit there is there is an economy even if you are playing solo self-found, even if the only people is you - you conduct item transactions with yourself. Thus, if you have a problem with the economy, what you have is a problem with item value - and thus, with the itemization of the game itself.

Or perhaps just with people.

Goetzjam, your patience and time with some of these posters here is quite admirable, if they still can't see and understand by now, they will never understand that the current trading system really shouldn't be a priority for a small, indie co that currently and constantly has much bigger fish to fry.

Again, there is nothing so much that is wrong with the system... seperate yourelf's ability, willingness, and the economy from the system itself.

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goetzjam wrote:

Yet trade chat is only one out of the many methods to initiate trades.

The forums are just as bad for reasons already explained. The boards are also a joke.