Mechanics thread

By any source of damage? I also know that chilled enemies can shatter, but I dont know exactly what causes it.

Chilled monsters never shatter. However if the killing blow can also freeze a mob just before it dies, therefore making it shatter without it seeming to have been frozen.

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Malice wrote:

Item level
Each item has a level associated with it that is equal to the monster level of the area it dropped in. The monster level is shown on the map overlay. Rare and unique monsters have +2 to their level, and will yield items with an itemlevel two levels higher than other monsters in the same area.

Blue-named monsters (Champions? not sure what we call them in PoE) appear to drop items with an item level of +1 over the area's monster level, similar to Rare and Unique monsters' +2.

Question Pertaining to how passive/gear mods stack/work. I understand the differences between "Increased"/"Reduced" and "More"/"Less" already.

My question is specifically about +Projectile Damage and Wands with Physical and Elemental Damage on them (along with other +Ele Damage increases).

Sorry if this gets lengthy for something that might be simple. Thanks in advance.

Hypothetically I have +50% Elemental Damage, +25% Elemental Damage With Weapons, and +25% Projectile Damage. After having each separate "type" of mod stack additively with other like mods (For example, 2x +25% Elemental Damage nodes made the +50% Elemental Damage mod mentioned) they then stack multiplicatively with each other and their respective damage.

So I just really want to know the nuance of +Projectile Damage. I figured it works like this...

Fake Wand of Awesome
100 Physical Damage
50 Fire Damage
70 Lightning Damage

Using the aforementioned mods of +50% Elemental Damage, +25% Elemental Damage With Weapons, and +25% Projectile Damage...

Total Elemental Damage Increase for this Wand would be 1 - ((1 - 0.5) * (1 - 0.25)) = 0.625 or +62.5% Elemental Damage (multiplied the 2 different mods pertaining to Elemental Damage).

So Fire would be 50 * 1.625 = 81 and Lightning would be 70 * 1.625 = 113.

The Wand is now...

100 Physical
81 Fire
113 Lightning

Add it all up, the wand does 294 damage, do we then multiply that by +Projectile Damage?

294 * 1.25 = 367

If it does work like this, it seems really powerful since it apply to all types AFTER other mods increase it.

question in order to help via your example. are you sure both +25% are from a "more" based damage boost?

this is what happens if they're all additive:
100 physical *(1+ 0.25) = 125
50 fire *(1 +0.5 +0.25 +0.25) = 100
70 light *2 [same as fire] = 140
total = 365

if all are multiplicative:
100 physical, left alone.
50 fire *1.25 *1.5 =93.75
70 light *1.25 *1.5 =131.25
sub total 325 *1.25 =406.25

projectile works on all wand (and bow) damage because fire projectiles. both elemental mods are same in the situation but due to both being more based boosts, are separated.
edit: 1.5 *1.25 =1.875

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soul4hdwn wrote:

question in order to help via your example. are you sure both +25% are from a "more" based damage boost?

this is what happens if they're all additive:
100 physical *(1+ 0.25) = 125
50 fire *(1 +0.5 +0.25 +0.25) = 100
70 light *2 [same as fire] = 140
total = 365

if all are multiplicative:
100 physical, left alone.
50 fire *1.25 *1.5 =93.75
70 light *1.25 *1.5 =131.25
sub total 325 *1.25 =406.25

projectile works on all wand (and bow) damage because fire projectiles. both elemental mods are same in the situation but due to both being more based boosts, are separated.
edit: 1.5 *1.25 =1.875

Well the 2x 25% Ele Damage increases were hypothetical but I was thinking they were "increased", meaning they stack with each other additively to become a +50% Ele Damage mod.

This mod is then multiplied against the Ele Damage on the Wand.

The only things that stack additively are "increased" mods with other "increased" mods that are the SAME TYPE (For example, "Increased Elemental Damage" is different than "Increased Elemental Damage With Wands so wouldn't be added). Nothing is ever added directly to the stats themselves, only the like mods to each other.

So your first example wouldn't happen, your second example is the same idea as I had when it came to how this worked but I'm pretty sure that's not how mods are multiplied, I could be wrong.

I always thought that dissimilar mods stacked multiplicatively like in my example of 1 - ((1 - 0.5) * (1 - 0.25)) = 0.625 or +62.5%. So instead of each mod being multiplied independently against the stats, they are stacked together first then the new mod (in this case 62.5%) is used against the stats.

I'm glad you brought up that 2nd example because this is now a whole different question.

Regardless of which way THAT works, the question of how/when +Increased Projectile Damage % is calculated still stands (unless you're certain that it's multiplied against the TOTAL Phys+Ele damage like shown in your 2nd example?)

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BRavich wrote:

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WUlf1337 wrote:

"+% elemental weapon damage: Does it also count for the "add lightning/cold" support gem, or will only "+ %elemental dmg" increase the dmg of those support gems?

If you use added lightning damage with an attack skill, the lightning damage is considered part of the attack and will be affected by lightning/elemental weapon damage.

Thank you!

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Glowyrm wrote:

Question Pertaining to how passive/gear mods stack/work. I understand the differences between "Increased"/"Reduced" and "More"/"Less" already.

My question is specifically about +Projectile Damage and Wands with Physical and Elemental Damage on them (along with other +Ele Damage increases).

Sorry if this gets lengthy for something that might be simple. Thanks in advance.

Hypothetically I have +50% Elemental Damage, +25% Elemental Damage With Weapons, and +25% Projectile Damage. After having each separate "type" of mod stack additively with other like mods (For example, 2x +25% Elemental Damage nodes made the +50% Elemental Damage mod mentioned) they then stack multiplicatively with each other and their respective damage.

So I just really want to know the nuance of +Projectile Damage. I figured it works like this...

Fake Wand of Awesome
100 Physical Damage
50 Fire Damage
70 Lightning Damage

The Wand is now...

100 Physical
81 Fire
113 Lightning

Add it all up, the wand does 294 damage, do we then multiply that by +Projectile Damage?

294 * 1.25 = 367

If it does work like this, it seems really powerful since it apply to all types AFTER other mods increase it.

Nope, passive bonuses almost always stack. Local gear mods that modify base stats of the gear multiply but there's no need to complicate things, you just apply them first and then work with item's 'new' stats. Damage 'efficiency' percentage on some skills is multiplicative too, and so are '% physical damage as elemental' mods and that is best done in stages too.

Your example is simple, no need to overthink it, if you got +50% wand damage, +30% projectile damage, +20% elemental damage, +40% weapon elemental damage, and what the heck 10% lightning damage, physical damage part of your wand is increased by 80% (50 + 30%), fire part by 90% (30 + 20 + 40) and lightning part by 100% (30 + 20 + 40 + 10) making the end result like this:

100*1,8 + 50*1,9 + 50*1,9 + 70*2 =
180 physical
95 fire
140 lightning

And if, for example, existed a skill Burning Shot, similar to burning arrow that has a damage efficiency of 80%, adds 25% of physical damage as fire, and has a scalable on level mod that increases physical damage by 70% it would go like this:

first, you apply damage efficiency to base attack damage
(100 + 50 + 70) *0,8 =
80 physical
40 fire
54 lightning
and you add 25% of physical as fire so it's like this
80 physical
20 converted fire (gets all physical bonuses except the one from skill level)
40 fire
54 lightning

then you sum up all relevant bonuses
physical part is affected by 50% wand damage, 30% projectile damage and 70% damage from skill
elemental bonuses as converted fire by 80% for physical and 90% for fire, fire by 90%, lightning by 100% so it's like this:

80*2,5 + 20*(1 + 0,8 + 0,9) + 40*1,9 + 54*2 =
200 physical
130 fire
108 lightning

It's much simpler if you do it in stages. Projectile damage passive bonus is just like the others, the great thing about it is that it's the only mod that applies to both physical and elemental part of the attack.

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raics wrote:

It's much simpler if you do it in stages. Projectile damage passive bonus is just like the others, the great thing about it is that it's the only mod that applies to both physical and elemental part of the attack.

Projectile damage also increased physical damage from amulets and rings.