Mechanics thread

I am confused and conflicted about Converted Elemental Damage things.

I hear that it's impossible to double-dip with physical and elemental % damage boosting passives.

So.. does this mean that if you have a good chunk of % physical damage passives, using a conversion actually reduces the amount of damage you deal?

I'll do an example of what I mean:

- I fire an arrow that does 100 base physical damage.
- I have 50% Increased Physical Damage with Bows
- The attack deals 150 damage.


- I fire an arrow that does 100 base physical damage and converts 30% of physical damage to cold.
- The conversion goes first, I am now firing an arrow that does 70 physical + 30 cold.
- ALL damage boosts now happen, I have 50% Increased Physical Damage with Bows, and 0% Increased damage for cold or elemental.
- The attack deals 135 damage. (105 physical + 30 cold)

So.. the more I cast elemental arrow things, the more lame +Bow Physical Damage skills are?

Took me a while to find this, but here you go:

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Mark_GGG wrote:

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raic000 wrote:

That's the way it is.

Say you have 10-20 physical damage weapon and passives that increase your weapon damage by total of 100%, you'll do
20-40 physical damage

Now, if you start using infernal blow that converts 50% damage to fire that will be
10-20 physical
10-20 fire

If you have fire damage and/or fire damage on weapons bonus of, say a grand total of 50% you'll do
10-20 physical
15-30 fire

So fire portion of the damage got increased twice, and not additively but multiplicatively, which would mean that half of your weapon damage first got increased by 100% and then that total was again increased by 50% which would sum it up as not a 150% increase, but 200% (probably the main reason why those weapon elemental damage nodes were nerfed).

This is false. Additive increases are never made multiplicative by conversion.

In the above example, you have 10-20 base physical damage, half of which is converted to fire.
Thus you have 5-10 base physical damage, affected by a total 100% increase, give 10-20 total physical damage.
You also have 5-10 base fire damage converted from physical, affected by the 100% increase and the 50% increase, so a total increase of 150%. This gives a total of 13 - 25 fire damage.

Additive increases are never applied multiplicatively. That would make them broken.

If you do not want to read the whole thread, but is still interested in the game mechanic, click on the (GGG) button before the thread title. It basically gives you all the dev posts within that thread. You can access to the (GGG) button from Beta General Discussion Forum.

Anyway, in your case.

30% is converted to cold
70 physical damage and 50% increased physical damage = 105 phy
30 cold damage with 50% increased physical damage AND 0% increased cold damage = 45 cold
Total = 105 phy and 45 cold

Thank you for this information. I have filling like I discovered a new Universe.

Oh, I'd read that before posting, wxyjac (had been looking for my answer before posting), but the bolded never made me think "never stack at all ever ever no never"
.. Also it was from July, which made me want to ask anyway.

So a better way of describing Converted damage, then, is to say that it becomes both damage types?


So: Attacking for 100 damage with a bow, freezing shot that converts 30% of Physical to Cold, 50% increased physical damage, 0 cold or elemental damage boosts

- 30% is converted to PhysicalCold (physi/cold?) damage
- 70 physical damage gets buffed by 50% increased physical damage = 105 physical
- 30 Physi/Cold damage gets buffed by 50% increased physical damage + 0% increased cold damage = 45 cold
Total = 105 phy and 45 cold, for a total of 150, same as if the attack was all-physical.

If I had 10% cold damage in addition to the rest, that last step would be 30 physicold * (1 + 0.5 phys + 0.1 cold) = 48 cold damage, for a total of 153.


If that be correctly how it works, it makes MUCH more sense to think of it as Physi/Cold when converted, as far as passive boosts are concerned.


...Of course, thinking about it like that probably doesn't work when you get to that blasted Fire To Cold support gem

Oh, right, I guess so. It would be "Fiery/Cold" damage, and benefit from +Fire, +Cold, and +Elemental all added together. Dunno why I thought it'd be otherwise.

And if you had an attack that converted physical to fire AND the gem for fire to cold, you'd have part Physical, part Phys/Fire, and part Phys/Fire/Cold. That actually does still make sense.

Thanks!

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Chompie wrote:

If I had 10% cold damage in addition to the rest, that last step would be 30 physicold * (1.5 phys + 1.1 cold) = 48 cold damage, for a total of 153.

48 is correct.

but the formula should be:
30 * ( 1 + 0.5 phy + 0.3 cold ) = 48 cold

Just correcting to avoid any confusion other people might have when reading it.

And yea, cold to fire works like this as well.

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BRavich wrote:

Say I have fireball linked with LMP and added lightning damage.

Will the lightning damage be calculated per cast, or per hit?

Also, I would like to know whether ignite damage is amplified by shock beyond the initial hit being increased by shock.

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wxyjac wrote:

48 is correct.

but the formula should be:
30 * ( 1 + 0.5 phy + 0.3 cold ) = 48 cold

Just correcting to avoid any confusion other people might have when reading it.

And yea, cold to fire works like this as well.

Man, I can do highly complex calculations, but when it comes to adding percents, I always write it wrong. XD

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BRavich wrote:

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BRavich wrote:

Say I have fireball linked with LMP and added lightning damage.

Will the lightning damage be calculated per cast, or per hit?

Also, I would like to know whether ignite damage is amplified by shock beyond the initial hit being increased by shock.

because shock and burn apply on same time if you make a crit, yes burning gets the benefit of the shock status. as for the added lightning+ LMP, each bolt has fireball + added lightning then *0.7. if all three hit foe, the numbers don't "combine" and entire skill crits on per cast basis against foe, so 3 shock debuffs.

as for when actual numbers are rolled, i'm sorry i can't answer for that.