Did you remove /oos or fix desync?

"

genericacc wrote:

"

EatThePath wrote:

That's a complete non sequitur. The take-away from Damien's post, in my reading, is that simpler gameplay in 'other games' makes it much easier to keep things in sync cheaply, and the design goals of PoE mean they have to do things differently, which is making the sync issues more egregious. That has nothing to do with desyncs being an intentional part of the hit mechanics, or expecting the player to be able to intuit when they are or aren't in sync.

This is a big enough issue in the game already without inventing developer insanity to complain about.

What simpler gameplay? You desync in this game using Leap Slam if you get unlucky. That skill was in Diablo 2 also, aptly called Leap Attack. It's in Diablo 3, too, called Leap. It doesn't make you desync in either of those games. This is disregarding that I've had sync issues from doing inconceivable actions, like trying to fight near walls. I therefore choose to believe that the developer is insane and is talking about the syncing scheme rather than trying really hard to believe that the developer has never played the game this is, essentially, an improved clone of.

Also, it's fairly easy to intuit that you're not in sync right now. Tipoffs may include invisible mobs and visible mobs that aren't really there. You just can't do much about it anymore, because they removed /oos.

You need to calm down and realize you don't have any idea of the technical scope you are trying to talk about. You cannot make 1:1 comparisons (which damien already said) between different client/server game codes. They cannot copy/paste what diablo 2 or 3 did as there is a fundamental difference in how they handle "sync".

Stop talking about something as though it's an easy 3 step issue to solve when you don't even understand what all goes into making this happen. I'm not an apologist, I am frustrated from desync, but I also understand that this is a much more complicated problem that simply changing 2 lines of code and calling it a day.

You need to stop making rash and unreasonable accusations towards devs that have told you that they are working on the problem. They know more about what's going on that you do, that much is obvious from the way you talk about the problem.

TLDR; You don't know what you are talking about. Stop talking and either play something else or deal with it like a big boy and have fun knowing that the team is working on it.

Those GGG replies sound very bad for the game atm, if desync is as bad as it was before and there is no /oos it means it's pretty much suicide to play with certain abilities atm. If it wasn't for /oos I'd died tens of times on my characters using leap slam, whirling blades and shield dash.

Oh well if I die on any of my characters to desync because of this I'm quitting till it's fixed. If it isn't fixed I'm quitting for good.

"

Malexa79 wrote:

Those GGG replies sound very bad for the game atm, if desync is as bad as it was before and there is no /oos it means it's pretty much suicide to play with certain abilities atm. If it wasn't for /oos I'd died tens of times on my characters using leap slam, whirling blades and shield dash.

Oh well if I die on any of my characters to desync because of this I'm quitting till it's fixed.

A majority of players didn't know about /oos. I didn't even think it was still in the game until very recently, myself. I thought they had removed it long ago.

You may just want to take a break from PoE until it's fixed then. That will send a stronger message than whining.

For my entire group (we are all in Scotland) the desync was MASSIVELY improved a few patches ago - about the same time that random dc's were completely removed.

We still get the odd enemy / ally desync but it's no more frequent than once or twice per evening - it used to be once or twice per minute so they have certainly fixed something!

"

anubite wrote:

Go download League of Legends. While you're doing that, start up a torrent of some kind. Install the game and check your ping. If you're at 250-300 ms, great. Okay, start playing.

What's that? Your actions are all delayed by 1 to 2 seconds? That's a combination of input lag and latency-coding. In LoL, you are not allowed to move until the server says you can. In Path of Exile, you can move before the server says you can. How this works, is the server keeps you in sync after the fact. This means Path of Exile is playable (there's no sluggish responsiveness) at 300ms++. As you play, more or less rubberbanding will occur depending upon your connection quality. In LoL, the game is nigh-unplayable at 150+ ms. You need a high-speed relation with the server to have constant feedback and movement. The pay off? In LoL, you're ALWAYS sync'd, you're ALWAYS where your client shows you are. In POE, you're off by some small margin most of the time, and ocassionally off by a large margin which needs to be corrected immediately.

This is how the architecture differs and there are obvious design goals for each kind of architecture.

That's actually the best and most helpful posting so far in this thread. These are basically the two ways you can go when you implement server-client architecture.

Most game developers go with the first one obviously, as it ensures synchronization. I have no idea why GGG decided to go for the second one, especially in a fast paced game like PoE. Who has a latency higher then 150 ms these days anyways? It just doesn't make any sense in my opinion to go for this approach.

"

anubite wrote:

"

Malexa79 wrote:

Those GGG replies sound very bad for the game atm, if desync is as bad as it was before and there is no /oos it means it's pretty much suicide to play with certain abilities atm. If it wasn't for /oos I'd died tens of times on my characters using leap slam, whirling blades and shield dash.

Oh well if I die on any of my characters to desync because of this I'm quitting till it's fixed.

A majority of players didn't know about /oos. I didn't even think it was still in the game until very recently, myself. I thought they had removed it long ago.

You may just want to take a break from PoE until it's fixed then. That will send a stronger message than whining.

Are you kidding? It won't send any message this isn't a subscription game, they don't care if I play or not, but they can read my "whining".

"

Malexa79 wrote:

Are you kidding? It won't send any message this isn't a subscription game, they don't care if I play or not, but they can read my "whining".

I'm pretty sure they will care big time. No subscription, yes but the micro transactions are what GGG now rely on to keep going, as I bet their operating costs rocketed when OB began and they had to increase their entire operation many times over to support the increased volume of players. The more people play this game, the more money they will make from the micros. Simple.

"

genericacc wrote:

"

idarktemplar wrote:

Complete bullsh*t! Only crap software has to deal with it.

No, he's right. There's inherent latency on any data transfer, so you have to deliberately have a syncing scheme. What you call a "latency issue" is a subset of what he calls a desync issue, because that's what it is: you're out of sync due to latency.

"Latency" not equals to "desync".

"

EatThePath wrote:

"

idarktemplar wrote:

"

Damien_GGG wrote:

One of the first things people should understand about desync is that it is NOT a bug - it's a term for the completely natural phenomenon of the client (your game on your PC) getting out of sync with the server. This means ALL online games have to deal with the issue in one of the various ways they may choose to do so.

Complete bullsh*t! Only crap software has to deal with it.

Every single multiplayer game I have played has had either desync issues or 'lag'/stutter/slowdown issues at one point or another, it's simply a matter of degrees.

Between latency and desync issues I definitely choose latency ones. They can be fixed by improving my internet quality, desync issues - can't.

"

Damien_GGG wrote:

To those who are upset about this issue - if you want to vent, by all means do - we'll leave you alone to do so. But if you want to actually engage in a conversation with us - real live human beings, just like you - then please do; talk directly to us rather than trying to bait us into discussion by rubbishing the game with non-constructive posts or trashing our statements on the forum because when you do that, we can only assume you're trolling or too upset to engage in a civil conversation so we avoid responding.

So, if you get too negative feedback, you claim it "trolling" and "uncivil" and just ignore it? No wonder you got huge sync problems: you just ignored this issue everytime you read about it because, obviously, people who got little desyncs rarely note them and ive almost no feedback, and people suffering to desyncs, even dying (loosing hardcore chars and/or considerable amounts of XP), are obviously can get angry, especially when devs are ignoring them. So smart of you.

"

anubite wrote:

Go download League of Legends. While you're doing that, start up a torrent of some kind. Install the game and check your ping. If you're at 250-300 ms, great. Okay, start playing.

What's that? Your actions are all delayed by 1 to 2 seconds? That's a combination of input lag and latency-coding. In LoL, you are not allowed to move until the server says you can. In Path of Exile, you can move before the server says you can. How this works, is the server keeps you in sync after the fact. This means Path of Exile is playable (there's no sluggish responsiveness) at 300ms++. As you play, more or less rubberbanding will occur depending upon your connection quality. In LoL, the game is nigh-unplayable at 150+ ms. You need a high-speed relation with the server to have constant feedback and movement. The pay off? In LoL, you're ALWAYS sync'd, you're ALWAYS where your client shows you are. In POE, you're off by some small margin most of the time, and ocassionally off by a large margin which needs to be corrected immediately.

I've been playing WarCraft 3 on Battle.net with 56k modem with considerable lags and delays. It's more playable than desynced PoE for me. 1-2 seconds? I can think so much in advance. I can't do sh*t when I suddenly teleport into mobs pack or find myself hit by charge i've clearly evaded.

"

Damien_GGG wrote:

"

genericacc wrote:

Alternatively, the GGG apologetics squadron can attempt to explain why GGG put in high-movespeed mobs...

I assume the GGG apologetics squadron, as you call them, are the community members who treat us like humans - like other players and other members of the community - and take our words as they're intended rather than twisting them to make a point.

I called precisely one person, the very same AzraelX, a member of the "apologetics squad" earlier in the thread and it's because he posted the following: "ITT: People who shouldn't be participating in a Beta."

"

There are always going to be people who twist words and invent motives in order to either troll or because they're upset and feel they need to take it out on either the devs or the community - generally, we tend to ignore those posts because engaging with them does not progress the discussion.

The only reason I have to "twist words and invent motives" is because the post you made, while the most specific one to date that I'm aware of, is incredibly vague, being an off-the-cuff post. I will admit that I am not a professional augur.

"

I also said I'm not the person to go into the greater detail on the issue - that's coming soon.

Sync issues have kind of been known for a year or so and the workaround for when you know you're out of sync just got removed. More detail would be appreciated, yes.

"

(I have actually played Diablo 2 and 3 - Path of Exile was not made by Blizzard so the way the game works is very different - comparisons at a core level won't help you.)

The only reason I brought up those two games was to argue that there's nothing inherent about that specific ability which should cause a desync in a game like this, since there exists a game where that's not the case.

e: If you'd like I can try to do augury by comparing what's known of the D2GS spec and that old incomplete protocol spec for your game someone posted on blizzhackers, but I somehow doubt that'll go anywhere.

"

anubite wrote:

Go download League of Legends. While you're doing that, start up a torrent of some kind. Install the game and check your ping. If you're at 250-300 ms, great. Okay, start playing.

What's that? Your actions are all delayed by 1 to 2 seconds? That's a combination of input lag and latency-coding. In LoL, you are not allowed to move until the server says you can. In Path of Exile, you can move before the server says you can. How this works, is the server keeps you in sync after the fact. This means Path of Exile is playable (there's no sluggish responsiveness) at 300ms++. As you play, more or less rubberbanding will occur depending upon your connection quality. In LoL, the game is nigh-unplayable at 150+ ms. You need a high-speed relation with the server to have constant feedback and movement. The pay off? In LoL, you're ALWAYS sync'd, you're ALWAYS where your client shows you are. In POE, you're off by some small margin most of the time, and ocassionally off by a large margin which needs to be corrected immediately.

This is how the architecture differs and there are obvious design goals for each kind of architecture.

I know what syncing does, thanks. Unfortunately for you, every FPS ever works like your proposed second scheme and does not have rubberbanding issues at reasonable levels of ping, which this does. Unless this game's target market was Brazil, choosing a scheme which benefits players with 300+ ping and irritates everyone else is a rather odd choice.

Removing /oos and not reducing desync in any way just seems illogical, and kinda annoys me quite a bit. Why couldn't they have left /oos alone till they actually had dealt with the desync issues?

It's not like you can alt+f4 or exit game every time whirling blades desyncs you, happens way too often if no improvements were made. God damn it, oh well it's just a game... it's not vital. Will just have to find something else to do.