[2.1 Ghazzy - Summoner Guides] Low Budget Builds

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KairoStark wrote:

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Ghazzy wrote:

The ammount of chaos resistance is rather simple to get your hands on. However, CI will not be a help i'm going to display due to the power behind hybrid builds and their low cost in terms of currency.
Keep in mind that the Hybrid SRS doesnt need life rolls on the gear pieces. Just ES and then getting at least 40%+ chaos resistance!

Its cheaper than it sounds. :)

Appreciate your help there. Yet another question remains, why arent you picking the main nodes of minions like Herd the Flock and Puppet Master?

Right now (just starting the act 4 normal) i feel that if i didnt have the zombies to use as a meatwall i would die really fast.

OK, let me just rephrase it (edit after getting home and actually being able to look to the trees and stuff)

What I'm trying to do is combine both the SRS and the Zoomancer so I can cast SRS and also have beefy minions old-style without picking the keystones.

Do you think that's actually viable or I'm just trying something really stupid here?

I'm always promoting people to see my or anyone elses buildthreads more as guidelines, ultimately this is a game, games are here to give you an enjoying time. Make sure you play a build you enjoy playing, IN a way you enjoy playing it. It doesn't have to be the best/fastest/safest, important thing is that you enjoy playing it.

With that said, i wouldnt play that type of mixture no. I personally feel that the investment of nodes gets REALLY expensive that you lose a lot on it in the later stage. And yes, zombies with Fortify and Minion Life are very resilient without minion life nodes anyways.

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kjksdajk wrote:

why culling strike?, isnt it better just fire damage/empower, and the one you dont use change for mele splash for single target? (SRS). I am asumming ofc that u have lvl4 empower

second question: Why slower projectiles on revenants instead of faster casting?

Culling Strike gives increased cast/atk speed per quality and the insta kill on sub 10% HP. Hence why i prefer it over added fire. Both are viable, but don't forget that SRS now recieves 30% LESS added DMG modifiers, hence why i've decided to take the Culling Strike.

Regarding Melee Splash:
You can change Culling Strike for Empower and then you change splash for added fire instead if you have/want.
The Pledge of Hands (allowing you to ignore the Echo GEM as its in the staff already) gives you those optimal links as i've displayed. Melee Phys and Melee Phys on full life both gives about 10% more dmg added compared to the Empower gem in a +3 staff :)

have u considered faster attacks instead of culling?.
More melee on full life is just bad cuz the Ragings take damage.
Regardless the staff, a +3 is so much better than pledge, there is a big difference between lvl 21 ragings on pledge and lvl 28 ragings on a +3

Hey Ghazzy could you comment on what kind of weapons you are looking out for at the 4 Keystone Summoner?
2x 3Links. I guess a shield and a wand but stat wise? Mana regeneration isn't needed anymore with the keystones I assume. Sorry this may be simple but it is my first summoner and I want it to work properly. (: never played at the start of a league before so currency stock is low. Thanks in advance mouz.

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kjksdajk wrote:

have u considered faster attacks instead of culling?.
More melee on full life is just bad cuz the Ragings take damage.
Regardless the staff, a +3 is so much better than pledge, there is a big difference between lvl 21 ragings on pledge and lvl 28 ragings on a +3

Come back with a calculation before i change my mind.
SRS with Empower in Pledge gives lvl 24 SRS vs 28 thats ~40% dmg modifier, Melee DMG on F.Life gives ~50%, thats a 10% increase as long as they dont take dmg, which they barely do. Cast speed wise, the +3 gives a few % more as long as the cast speed roll is above 15% which gives you ultimately if you have a t1-2 cast speed 0.01sec faster casting when using a +3 staff compared to Pledge. So we are only comparing the actual DMG gain.

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mouzGaming wrote:

Hey Ghazzy could you comment on what kind of weapons you are looking out for at the 4 Keystone Summoner?
2x 3Links. I guess a shield and a wand but stat wise? Mana regeneration isn't needed anymore with the keystones I assume. Sorry this may be simple but it is my first summoner and I want it to work properly. (: never played at the start of a league before so currency stock is low. Thanks in advance mouz.

Shield with ES and Life, resistances, even cast speed if you want but main focus is actual defence.
Weapon: Projectile Speed for the sake of our Glacioal Cascade EE to give it a longer range, besides that Intelligence would give us more mana regen & ES but its such a small number that i'd rather focus on actual resistances and even cast speed. Make sure NOT to get any "added Fire or Lightning DMG on spells" (or Fire & Cold when it comes to Flame Sentinels) as that ll screw over our EE application.

If you have any other questions fire away, you can always reach me on my livestream :)

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Ghazzy wrote:

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kjksdajk wrote:

have u considered faster attacks instead of culling?.
More melee on full life is just bad cuz the Ragings take damage.
Regardless the staff, a +3 is so much better than pledge, there is a big difference between lvl 21 ragings on pledge and lvl 28 ragings on a +3

Come back with a calculation before i change my mind.
SRS with Empower in Pledge gives lvl 24 SRS vs 28 thats ~40% dmg modifier, Melee DMG on F.Life gives ~50%, thats a 10% increase as long as they dont take dmg, which they barely do. Cast speed wise, the +3 gives a few % more as long as the cast speed roll is above 15% which gives you ultimately if you have a t1-2 cast speed 0.01sec faster casting when using a +3 staff compared to Pledge. So we are only comparing the actual DMG gain.

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mouzGaming wrote:

Hey Ghazzy could you comment on what kind of weapons you are looking out for at the 4 Keystone Summoner?
2x 3Links. I guess a shield and a wand but stat wise? Mana regeneration isn't needed anymore with the keystones I assume. Sorry this may be simple but it is my first summoner and I want it to work properly. (: never played at the start of a league before so currency stock is low. Thanks in advance mouz.

Shield with ES and Life, resistances, even cast speed if you want but main focus is actual defence.
Weapon: Projectile Speed for the sake of our Glacioal Cascade EE to give it a longer range, besides that Intelligence would give us more mana regen & ES but its such a small number that i'd rather focus on actual resistances and even cast speed. Make sure NOT to get any "added Fire or Lightning DMG on spells" (or Fire & Cold when it comes to Flame Sentinels) as that ll screw over our EE application.

If you have any other questions fire away, you can always reach me on my livestream :)

ok, i made the homework here. i wont explain the process, but i have calculated the dps for one raging on ur setup and one raging on mine. I assume that we both can summon around the same ammount of them, u with pledge lvl 30 echo and i with +3 staff with cast speed.

Pledge= SRS 21, Mele damage, Minion damage, Empower, Mele on full life, Culling, (echo)
DPS= 28944.
+1+2 staff= SRS 21, Mele damage, Minion damage, Empower, Faster attacks, Echo
DPS=40011.

CLEARLY, my setup is better (around 40% more dps), if you dont think i am right, calculate the dps by yourself. I am assuming u have 10 jewells with +15 minion damage, all nodes for minion dps on tree, and all gems 20/20 but SRS, wich is 21.
I wont explain the maths, cuz its tedious to do in a forum and with the keyboard.
I didnt take into acc the fact that u have the culling effect, wich is almost not noticeable vs trash, and only 10 more dps if the boss have infinite life, wich makes it almost insignificant, but is cool tho. I also considered that ur minions are allways in full life, wich is NOT TRUE, in fact, a AOE can cripple ur dps.

For revenants spectres, you should consider changing slower projectiles for faster casting, dont make me explain this too, just test it and u will realise soon that its much much better.

Hey kjksdajk, I don't mean to be rude but how did you get those numbers? The guys in this thread over here seem to be for Pledge of Hands as well.

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Buttock wrote:

Hey kjksdajk, I don't mean to be rude but how did you get those numbers? The guys in this thread over here seem to be for Pledge of Hands as well.

this th is old, that dps on srs is outdated.(i mean the dps calculator on first post of the TH u linked).
Even in a old version of dps, they should be hitting harder on a 3+ than on pledge. But this is not covered on the dps calculator i believe.
Can you tell me exactly where is the pledge explanation?

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kjksdajk wrote:

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Ghazzy wrote:

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kjksdajk wrote:

have u considered faster attacks instead of culling?.
More melee on full life is just bad cuz the Ragings take damage.
Regardless the staff, a +3 is so much better than pledge, there is a big difference between lvl 21 ragings on pledge and lvl 28 ragings on a +3

Come back with a calculation before i change my mind.
SRS with Empower in Pledge gives lvl 24 SRS vs 28 thats ~40% dmg modifier, Melee DMG on F.Life gives ~50%, thats a 10% increase as long as they dont take dmg, which they barely do. Cast speed wise, the +3 gives a few % more as long as the cast speed roll is above 15% which gives you ultimately if you have a t1-2 cast speed 0.01sec faster casting when using a +3 staff compared to Pledge. So we are only comparing the actual DMG gain.

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mouzGaming wrote:

Hey Ghazzy could you comment on what kind of weapons you are looking out for at the 4 Keystone Summoner?
2x 3Links. I guess a shield and a wand but stat wise? Mana regeneration isn't needed anymore with the keystones I assume. Sorry this may be simple but it is my first summoner and I want it to work properly. (: never played at the start of a league before so currency stock is low. Thanks in advance mouz.

Shield with ES and Life, resistances, even cast speed if you want but main focus is actual defence.
Weapon: Projectile Speed for the sake of our Glacioal Cascade EE to give it a longer range, besides that Intelligence would give us more mana regen & ES but its such a small number that i'd rather focus on actual resistances and even cast speed. Make sure NOT to get any "added Fire or Lightning DMG on spells" (or Fire & Cold when it comes to Flame Sentinels) as that ll screw over our EE application.

If you have any other questions fire away, you can always reach me on my livestream :)

ok, i made the homework here. i wont explain the process, but i have calculated the dps for one raging on ur setup and one raging on mine. I assume that we both can summon around the same ammount of them, u with pledge lvl 30 echo and i with +3 staff with cast speed.

Pledge= SRS 21, Mele damage, Minion damage, Empower, Mele on full life, Culling, (echo)
DPS= 28944.
+1+2 staff= SRS 21, Mele damage, Minion damage, Empower, Faster attacks, Echo
DPS=40011.

CLEARLY, my setup is better (around 40% more dps), if you dont think i am right, calculate the dps by yourself. I am assuming u have 10 jewells with +15 minion damage, all nodes for minion dps on tree, and all gems 20/20 but SRS, wich is 21.
I wont explain the maths, cuz its tedious to do in a forum and with the keyboard.
I didnt take into acc the fact that u have the culling effect, wich is almost not noticeable vs trash, and only 10 more dps if the boss have infinite life, wich makes it almost insignificant, but is cool tho. I also considered that ur minions are allways in full life, wich is NOT TRUE, in fact, a AOE can cripple ur dps.

For revenants spectres, you should consider changing slower projectiles for faster casting, dont make me explain this too, just test it and u will realise soon that its much much better.

Add Flesh Offering, Vaal Haste, Haste and redo calculations then come back to see how much DPS you gain from Faster Attacks. You are missing vital points in the builds.
When it comes to trash we can oneshot end game content trash with a 5L so there we dont have to bother looking at all tbh. However, culling strike vs bosses is a HUGE deal. Specially as we are bursting phases vs atziri for example. Vs bosses there are a very few limited ammount of fights where the spirits would actually take dmg before the target is dead.

When it comes to Revenants its the same thing there, with Flesh Offering and Vaal Haste and Haste the Revenants will not benefit much from Faster Casting compared to what they would benefit from having Slower Projectiles.


I appreciate that you are running calculations and noticed something that seemed better, this is the only way this type of builds can get minmaxed. However, you're missing the whole picture, without adding external factors you won't get the full picture of your actual DPS.

Also, don't forget the fact that you are looking at single target DPS calculation which means it will not look like that vs trash for neither the +3 staff nor the Pledge gem set up. You will actually change the Melee DMG on Full life for Melee Splash.


If you still think I'm wrong, I'm very interested to see if you have something that i've missed to look at.

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Buttock wrote:

Hey kjksdajk, I don't mean to be rude but how did you get those numbers? The guys in this thread over here seem to be for Pledge of Hands as well.

MatrixFactor is imo the best guy in this game to ask when it comes to getting exact numbers of DPS from any minion related spell.
People seem to be ignoring the fact that other stats / auras / allignments affects such as stacking Echo with faster cast despite having V.-haste and Haste running on the build.

Or Faster Attacks with Multistrike etc etc they are valued a lot less due to the already high ammount of increase %.

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Ghazzy wrote:

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Buttock wrote:

Hey kjksdajk, I don't mean to be rude but how did you get those numbers? The guys in this thread over here seem to be for Pledge of Hands as well.

MatrixFactor is imo the best guy in this game to ask when it comes to getting exact numbers of DPS from any minion related spell.
People seem to be ignoring the fact that other stats / auras / allignments affects such as stacking Echo with faster cast despite having V.-haste and Haste running on the build.

Or Faster Attacks with Multistrike etc etc they are valued a lot less due to the already high ammount of increase %.

I calculated again taking into acc flesh offering, haste (wich is just bad cuz is only increased attack speed now and a very small ammount of srs extras) and hatred.

MY calculations
pledge: SRS 21, Minion damage, mele damage, mele damage on full life, empower, culling, (echo)
58094 dps
+3: srs 21, minion damage, mele damage, empower, faster attacks, echo
70644 dps.
+3: srs 21, minion damage, mele damage, empower, culling strike, echo
70824

CLEARLY
+3 staff is better than pledge again, even on full aura flesh offering.
Culling strike is better than faster attacks (they are about the same in damage, but u get +10 cast speed and a nice culling effect).
If u are not with flesh offering + haste up, faster attacks may have an edge on dps.
I recommend a +3 staff with culling. ( srs 21, minion damage, mele damage, empower, culling strike, echo).
The dps of the +3staff is even higher than i calculated, cuz i dint take into acc the +1 to allgems from the staff on mele damage, culling or faster, minion damage and echo, only considered +1 on empower and srs to simplify calculation.

Wrath may be better aura than haste at the moment, i didnt do calculations on this one.
Edit: haste is better than wrath for a focused on SRS summoner (66801dps on +3 culling with wrath).

Thanks for reading, any question comment here or pm.