Snapshotting

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Mark_GGG wrote:
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Steakonthepath wrote:
Support gems for summoning: how does it make any kind of sense that generic supports like trap that can combine with a lot of skills offer more boost to minions than the minions specific supports? The current system tends to combine X support with Y spectre to make the other choices not even close to competitive and then we just rotate between spectre as the strongest combination gets nerfed.
TLDR: support gems are screwed up.
There's some good feedback in your post that I'm sure some of the balance team will take into consideration, but I'd like to address this bit here and now. It's nothing to do with snapshotting specifically, so isn't part of this change, but 1.2.0 will also be changing "mine damage", "trap damage" and "totem damage" to explicitly mean damage dealt directly by a trap, totem or mine.
This means that if you place a mine that throws a trap that shoots a fireball, the fireball came from a trap and gets trap damage modifiers, but not mine damage modifiers. It came from the trap, not the mine.
Similarly, If you throw a trap or place a mine that summons a minion, and that minion uses an attack (or spell), then that attack or spell didn't come from a trap or mine and is not "trap damage" or "mine damage" so will not be affected by modifiers to either.

Just as with the snapshotting change, the balance team will also be keeping this change in mind when re-examining minions for 1.2.0.


I really feel that theres no need to change how traps or mines affect damage once snapshotting is fixed. Those gems offer enough drawbacks like positioning or having to use a sunblast to their boosts boeings enough for any type of skills that they are supporting. Think about some creative combinations(that i have tried myself) line searing bond mine, or summon raging skull traps that you would make inviable(completely). There would also balancing problems like with, for example, summon raging skull totems, that would not be affected by the damage reduction from the totem gem(it isnt the totem tha is attacking). I guess that the way things works now minus the snapshotting makes sense enough and contributes to build diversity and overall balancing health.
I'll just pop in again, in the hopes of making things a bit more constructive.

I'd like to see more ways to make your summons do interesting things, such as cast spells, use specific attacks, etc. Perhaps a minion specific trigger gem? It'd be tricky to make it work with their AI, but I think it'd be worth it from a build variety standpoint.

(I love the idea of raging spirits belching little flame surges, it'd be so cute/deadly)

Also, I'd really love to see an int-based summon. Wraithes or elementals or something. Could even be ranged (although I'm not sure what the odds of us getting ranged summons are).
After reading Mark's replies about righteous fire so far, I still am unclear on a point. If I socket RF + Empower + Enhance + Increased AOE in my offhand weapon that has +1 skill gems, will RF keep all the bonuses granted from the gems (including the +1 gem level) once cast and swapped back to primary weapon? Will the spell damage buffs from RF still be increased?
ign crixus_sabr
btw you guys(GGG) read your forums or just reddit? it seems you just care about reddit and twitch, all the recent changes/nerfs were related to twitch instead of PoE feedback, go check the Bug report section more often.

about Snapshotting it was matter of time to get fixed, hope you guys add better skill mechanics because the autocast trigger(cwdt) gems were just lame....im starting to dislike your path.
Hi, I love the fact that this is changing. I had my fun with burning miscreation snapshotting once and that was great but so relieved the tedious tactic is being removed. awesome.

I didn't see it mentioned earlier and I could have missed it but with the minions and RF being dynamically effected by stat changes, will curses on the player affect their minions/RF eg. temp chains, slowing the minions/lowering RF dmg?

If so, will a curse on the player and the minions stack on the minions?

Very amped for the changes, thanks for the write up
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Mark_GGG wrote:

Removing snapshotting results in a better game

Removing snapshotting results in a better game (Except for summoners you're ****ed)

FIXED

IGN=ZeroLooper
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HeisenbergBlue wrote:
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Mark_GGG wrote:

Removing snapshotting results in a better game

Removing snapshotting results in a better game (Except for summoners you're ****ed)

FIXED



You haven't even see the patch notes nor did you read that part where they said they'll be revisiting some/all of these skills in response to the removal of snapshotting.
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robmafia wrote:
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Mark_GGG wrote:
you're talking about changing the gems and keeping the benefits of both sets. That is snapshotting.


*facepalm*

NO, I'M NOT.
It sounds like there has been a miscommunication. I will attempt to clear it up.

I have spoilered my full explanation because of it's length, and provided a shorter version.
Spoiler
I am referring to this post. I which you say:
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robmafia wrote:
how is using different spectres with different support gems exploitative when they all use the same number of gems and it's the same number of available slots?!

it wasn't even snapshotting.
emphasis mine.
In this post, you make no mention of weapon swapping. And based on your previous post in the thread here:
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robmafia wrote:
if using a 4-link with RS, minion life, minion damage, and one extra slot... i can't have 2 ranged spectres with gmp and an evangelist with culling strike, now they'll all be whatever the 4th gem is. ie: all would be either GMP or inc. dur, whichever happens to be equipped not at the time of summoning, but the time of play.
The conclusion I drew was that when you said "it wasn't even snapshotting.", you were referring to the practice of summoning some spectres with one set of supports, removing those supports while the spectres kept their benefit, and then socketing new supports into the same skill to summon other spectres.
If that was not the case, then I apologise, as that would be the source of confusion between us.

I responded to this in my post here, explaining that the above described practice was snapshotting, and noting that previously, when discussing weapon swapping, you had explicitly said "literally nothing's swapped. same gear, same gems." as an explanation of why you felt weapon swapping did not constitute snapshotting. I brought up that post because what you wrote there: "same gear, same gems" heavily implied that you accepted that removing gems (i.e. no longer having the "same gems"), but still benefiting from them was snapshotting. This previous statement you made appeared to contradict your current stance, that removing and replacing gems between summoning different spectres "wasn't even snapshotting.", so I showed it to you in the hopes you could clear up why you seemed to be contradicting your earlier position.


TL;DR:
1) You previously claimed that weapon swapping wasn't snapshotting because "literally nothing's swapped. same gear, same gems.".
2) At the time (and now) I interpreted this as meaning that you accepted that changing gems (while still benefitting from them) was snapshotting. If this is incorrect then I misunderstood what you meant like that and would welcome you explaining what you actually meant.
3) Later in the thread, you talked about removing support gems from a spectre skill. Then in your next post, you said "it wasn't even snapshotting.".
4) I assumed you were still talking about the topic of your previous post - removing supports from raise spectre after summoning, and replacing them with new ones before summoning other types of spectres. If this is correct, then I would welcome correction on this point - what were you referring to when you said "it wasn't even snapshotting"?
5) Because, back at 1 & 2, it had seemed to me that you had indicated you accepted swapping gems while still benefiting from them was snapshotting, but now seemed to be claiming that it was not snapshoptting in the case of spectres, I brought up your original post to demonstrate to you where it seemed, to me, that you had contradicted yourself.

I did not bring up your "same gear, same gems" post to argue against it, but because it seemed to contradict your more recent post that "it wasn't even snapshotting" to remove and replace gems on a spectre gem between uses.

I suspect I failed to properly communicate what I meant at some stage in this process. Grammar pedantry aside, my talent lies in writing for computers, not people - there's a reason the article was a collaborative effort with Nick and Brian, both of whom are better writers than myself. Unfortunately I do not have them constantly on hand to edit and re-word my posts for me.
Last edited by Mark_GGG#0000 on Jun 18, 2014, 2:00:07 AM
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2i0 wrote:
btw you guys(GGG) read your forums or just reddit? it seems you just care about reddit and twitch, all the recent changes/nerfs were related to twitch instead of PoE feedback, go check the Bug report section more often.
We read the forums a lot, and post on them. A few devs also read the reddit, and Chris in particular will post there if, in his off time while reading it, he sees something he can easily answer.
The forums are our primary means of communication and feedback gathering with players.
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bobohobo wrote:
Hi, I love the fact that this is changing. I had my fun with burning miscreation snapshotting once and that was great but so relieved the tedious tactic is being removed. awesome.

I didn't see it mentioned earlier and I could have missed it but with the minions and RF being dynamically effected by stat changes, will curses on the player affect their minions/RF eg. temp chains, slowing the minions/lowering RF dmg?

If so, will a curse on the player and the minions stack on the minions?
Curses still only affect the thing that was cursed.
If we made a curse in future that gave "reduced minion damage" or similar, then being cursed with that would cause your minions to lose damage, but I don't think that's likely to be implemented - it's very narrow.

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bobohobo wrote:
Very amped for the changes, thanks for the write up
No problem!

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