Snapshotting
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I like that you are getting rid of snapshotting. This causes a few problems with a few builds that currently ride on snapshotting to achieve end game worthy damage. I have a non snapshot lv 85 Minion build that can run up to 75 maps without too many issues except vs specific bosses or specific double bosses which is more than likely as intended. The true issue comes from RF builds end game damage without snapshotting...
Lets say I have 5k hp with my RF build, so 2.5k dps with no supports or skills that increase fire damage. 80% burning damage from passives, 56% burning damage from gem, 26% fire damage from passives, and then sacking 30% area for 50% more damage. That is 164% which is 6.6k dps then 50% more damage from conc effect is 9.9k dps. That is a heavily solo build and the opportunity cost of running RF is greatly diminished and is not worth it in most cases. If I compare it to my current setup of 364% damage increase and the 50% multiplier I get 17,600 dps which is end game worthy dps. Basically if it doesn't break 15k dps it isn't worth playing in a party. You guys do want to promote party play right? Last edited by DarkHeart69 on Jun 18, 2014, 12:38:25 AM
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" except it's probably not 8, it would be 9-11, really (if someone has grasp, it's safe to assume that midnight/queen's decree/bones of ullr would be also available). and i don't see how it's even comparable on paper. the percentage stays nearly the same. it would be appx 18% more life on paper vs a plain zombie... vs 15ish% in application. even an 18% increase per zombie wouldn't warrant a loss of 5-7 zombies, or even 4. [Removed by Support] "Your forum signature was removed as it was considered to be inappropriate and a breach of our Code of Conduct." ...it was quotes. from the forum. lolz! Last edited by robmafia on Jun 18, 2014, 12:39:57 AM
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I agree Grasp isn't going to be used after snapshottings removal because of monster targeting. I have 4 zombies, 3 specters, as well as myself with grasp that is a 1/8 chance to be targeted by an enemy and lets face it summoners are squishy so the best bet is to not be targeted or take damage in the first place. Where as if I don't use the Grasp I get 9 zombies, 3 specters, and myself which is a 1/13 chance to be targeted. I play a non snapshot summoner since the Burning Miscreation nerf (because I figured this was next) and the zombies don't usually die without snapshot mechanics even though my dps is significantly (like 1/2) lower than the snapshot counterparts.
Last edited by DarkHeart69 on Jun 18, 2014, 12:48:58 AM
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"There's also an incentive to diversify, because having varied spectres can be more powerful than not. Having only one spectre skill, supported for projectiles and summoning primarily projectile spectres and one utility/defence monster can still sometimes be useful, even if that monster doesn't have it's own full set of supports and doesn't benefit from all the other supports. This presents an actual choice, rather than there being an always right answer where you got to use multiple different versions of the same skill without keeping the gems in, so had no reason not to diversify and have them all with their perfect supports. There's now advantages to diversifying, and advantages to having a homogenous team (which previously had no advantages). There's now an advantage to using more generic supports that benefit all spectres, while there are still advantages to going the other route and using more specific and specialised supports (i.e. that they tend to be more powerful, but on a more limited set of spectres). The exact current balance values of each choice are irrelevant to the fact that having these choices all be actual choices is better than there always being one best answer, because as stated, all the balance stuff will be re-examined in light of the new changes. Having some advantages to the other option is better than none. "That's literally removing gems while still keeping their benefits, while also having the benefits of the gems you replaced them with at the same time. There's absolutely no question that the gems were unequipped in this case, so I have no idea what your reasoning is in saying this. You yourself said earlier in the thread: "regarding weapon swapping - but in this case it isn't "same gear, same gems" - you're talking about changing the gems and keeping the benefits of both sets. That is snapshotting. Last edited by Mark_GGG on Jun 18, 2014, 12:51:49 AM
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Mark, one quick question since I am a little unsure about RF and how it will be checking. While I currently can run RF in my gear on one of my toons, let's say that on another one I have them in something like this:
If I had these equipped, cast RF, and then switched them out completely (take the boots off) and replace them with something else that didn't have a RF gem in them, would: 1. RF still persist? 2. If so, would it immediately lose all the benefits of the gems it was linked to? Asking since I know some life-based characters will turn on RF for increased spell damage and then swap out the gear piece for what they normally wear and then go along their merry way. Just wondering what would happen. | |
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Truth be told, RF probably won't work as an end-game skill after this change. Summoners are going to be in a pretty bad spot as well. Sure, it's possible to get 12k hp zombies and what not, but who's going to go to all that trouble now? And I'm sure RF will exist if for no other reason than to buff Flame Surge... but playing RF by itself was honestly really fun.
Maybe someone will be cool and make a good RF one hander with some burn damage increase on it. :) Overall, I'm glad to see this mechanic disappear, I just hope summoners, RF builds, and aura stackers don't totally fall out of use. As an aside, I don't think summoner uniques should have such absurd drawbacks. I've never seen any other playstyle require such sacrifice. If we're going to be reserving life, losing half our minions, and wearing shit for gear, the power gain needs to be appropriate. Team Won
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Finally.
" Works just fine without it. Jul 27, 2011 - Sept 30, 2018. Last edited by Serleth on Jun 18, 2014, 1:05:28 AM
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" Just like another guy said, this still allows for some snapshoting situations like Tabula with supports/Kaoms heart swap. What's the reasoning behind this? Why wasn't it one of these two options: You remove the gem you lose the skill (I may understand this is because, you are doomed to burn to death and whatever) Or the best of both worlds: You remove the gem you lose the supports (You had Increased Burning Damage? Empower? Too bad, Snapshoting not allowed) Your solution looks kind of clunky, I would love to be proven wrong though. Also does +1 to gems/minions still have snapshoting features or is it only when a gem levels up? Everything else is just impressive work. Keep it up. | |
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boring, just boring.
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" no, there's REALLY not. there's an option to - and it's just as feasible as running 4 grasp zombies instead of 10 regular ones. as in, it makes no sense and will be much more worse than better, all things considered. " but not at the expense of losing your skeletons, auras, or spells. no brainer. you're not talking about one gem slot - you're talking about an entire piece of equipments' worth. 4 supported same spectre + auras/zombies/spell > 4 supported different spectres and losing one category. " *facepalm* NO, I'M NOT. i was talking about using weapon/shield slot A instead of B (grasp). i wasn't talking about unequipping anything or changing any gems. i thought "same gear, same gems" was pretty clear and concise, so i have no idea how/why you assumed i was talking about removing anything. hence, why i asked what the point is of having 2 weapon/shield slots, if we're going to be penalized for using them? and why did you quote that again? that was from pages ago! i'm sorry, but you are really out of touch with summoners. [Removed by Support] "Your forum signature was removed as it was considered to be inappropriate and a breach of our Code of Conduct." ...it was quotes. from the forum. lolz! Last edited by robmafia on Jun 18, 2014, 1:18:59 AM
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