Shockingly strong flamethrower build (Incinerate + Three Dragons)

"

DutchRudder wrote:

Im going to attempt 6 linking my armour soon and am wondering what the 6th socket colour should be?

green: faster projectiles, added cold damage, culling strike, enhance, blind, mana leech

red: empower, fire pen, knockback?, inc duration when i use firestorm as a support in dangerous maps

blue: added chaos

What do you think is the best option? I need to have life leech in my setup it has saved me so many times and almost instant fills me when i attack, the 8 life per hit isnt enough

I would definitely say fire pen. Its the best increase for damage and increasing your shock at thesame time.

Also I would really take a 20% Q added lightning (or close to it). Youre kinda wasting time leveling an 8% and will have to either throw a bunch of GCP's on it, or swap it from lvl 20 --> lvl 1 with 20% Q.
You could also try out swapping the ALD for an ACD. Which is the best source of flat damage you can add to your incinerate

yea i just got it to level 20 to get the 20% quality, i was going to level one to 20 i might as well do it with an 8% gem for levelling

im using ACD now while levelling the ALD on switch and cant really notice a dps difference but im sure there probably is, ALD benefits from the elemental damage nodes whereas AD doesn't which seems to balance it out

Im level 88 now and just trying to boost my survivability with getting arctic armour to level 20 then using empower with it, which means i might have to drop haste and use discipline and respec out of a dex node on the tree and into more cast speed.

trying to find armour/es gloves and boots is a pain with the right mods

question: if i have arctic armour with empower on switch on a +1 skill gems weapon will it stay on when i switch back to my cybils/rathpith?

Not sure if the you still keep up on this thread, but I was doing some research on a max block build using Cybil's paw and the wiki had a link to a video and that video had a link to this thread.

The idea of using Incinerate with Three Dragons to instantly shock stack enemies is intriguing, especially since it offers a total of 60% increased damage.

However, I noticed that your survivability is very low but doesn't act as though it were low. You only have 54% block chance, 64% spell block chance, 18% estimated physical damage reduction, 8% chance to evade, and 77% to elemental resistances. That's very low compared to what end game builds should have. Considering you have 52,540.8 DPS (4,378.4 x 3 projectiles x 4 for max stage), this is a glass cannon build. Nice to see it is survivable as I had never seen a glass cannon build survive PoE before.

A huge problem this build seems to have, and as indicated by you, is that Lightning Thorns will completely destroy you. For non-physical, non-spell builds, the Life Leech gem is required. For MoM builds, both the LL and Mana Leech gem are required. You lack both of these basic support gems. I'd immediately replace Fire Penetration and Faster Casting for these two gems. I guarantee that if you have both of these gems, LT will never be a problem, since I'm doing it right now. The same applies to Corrupted Blood and reflect.

"

Natharias wrote:

The idea of using Incinerate with Three Dragons to instantly shock stack enemies is intriguing, especially since it offers a total of 60% increased damage.

You get 90% MORE damage from having 3 shock stacks, alot more then 60% increased, thats what makes the incinerate dps so crazy

corrupted blood: haven't ever had a problem since having a remove bleeding flask

lightning thorns: with such high spell block alot of the damage is negated already, 77% lightning resist and a life leech gem makes it do nothing, if you run fire pen then you have to be more careful

"

Natharias wrote:

Not sure if the you still keep up on this thread, but I was doing some research on a max block build using Cybil's paw and the wiki had a link to a video and that video had a link to this thread.

The idea of using Incinerate with Three Dragons to instantly shock stack enemies is intriguing, especially since it offers a total of 60% increased damage.

However, I noticed that your survivability is very low but doesn't act as though it were low. You only have 54% block chance, 64% spell block chance, 18% estimated physical damage reduction, 8% chance to evade, and 77% to elemental resistances. That's very low compared to what end game builds should have. Considering you have 52,540.8 DPS (4,378.4 x 3 projectiles x 4 for max stage), this is a glass cannon build. Nice to see it is survivable as I had never seen a glass cannon build survive PoE before.

A huge problem this build seems to have, and as indicated by you, is that Lightning Thorns will completely destroy you. For non-physical, non-spell builds, the Life Leech gem is required. For MoM builds, both the LL and Mana Leech gem are required. You lack both of these basic support gems. I'd immediately replace Fire Penetration and Faster Casting for these two gems. I guarantee that if you have both of these gems, LT will never be a problem, since I'm doing it right now. The same applies to Corrupted Blood and reflect.

Im afraid I have to tell you that you are really mistaken. However the fact that this is not the most tanky build in existance, its tanky enough to clear lvl 78 maps without dying (i wouldnt call that glass cannon). I don't know if you ever played a build that uses AA, but the survivablity it gives is huge.

you pose 3 'issues' in your last paragraph:
- lightning thorns
- corrupted blood
- reflect

If you have read the guide entirely, I have mentioned all these 3 aspects and explained that these are not an issue AT all

- Lightnign thorns: the spell block prevents taking much damage, if any damage is taken at all by it, it is very minimal and you will leech more life with cybils paw than you actually take. even without your supposedly 'basic support gems'
- Corrupted blood: get yourself a bleed-remove flask already
- Reflect: due to AA, it is IMPOSSIBLE to take ANY DAMAGE AT ALL from reflect. it is not possible to take even 1 damage from reflect.

I dont use LL nor Mana leech and I clear maps without any issues, even vaal temple is no problem (except for the boss). It is ofcourse possible to use either of those gems, but they are not obligatory. Hoever, when using MoM, using a lavianga's is required.

With my current setup you can clear lvl 77 maps in about 5 minutes. As I have posted several times in this thread and what has also been said by Chris_GGG is that the setup I am using is not meant for Dominus in palace or Atziri. I have talked to several people that used my build and switched some stuff to be able to do even Atziri (however, you will then lose the ability to do a 77 map in 5 minutes)

To me it is clear that you post comments/critique on this without having read the full guide, read the replies, understand the complete mechanics or tested all skill-link possibilities yourself. I have tested dozens of different skill links and items posted as suggestions in these replies.

just 6 linked my chest.. what should be next gem? (using incinerate, fire pen, faster cast, added lightning and LMP)

"

AbyssGFX wrote:

just 6 linked my chest.. what should be next gem? (using incinerate, fire pen, faster cast, added lightning and LMP)

grats on your 6L :)

I would advise trying out several things. To increase your damage you can try ACD (however this has a 150% mana multiplier). If you have mana issues you could get mana leech (I think mana should be fine if you use discipline instead of haste)
You can also try lifeleech to increase your survivability.

20%Q faster projectiles is also possible, increases your cast speed and reach

"

DutchRudder wrote:

"

Natharias wrote:

The idea of using Incinerate with Three Dragons to instantly shock stack enemies is intriguing, especially since it offers a total of 60% increased damage.

You get 90% MORE damage from having 3 shock stacks, alot more then 60% increased, thats what makes the incinerate dps so crazy

corrupted blood: haven't ever had a problem since having a remove bleeding flask

lightning thorns: with such high spell block alot of the damage is negated already, 77% lightning resist and a life leech gem makes it do nothing, if you run fire pen then you have to be more careful

Well fuck the wiki then. I thought it was initially 30% more damage per shock, then someone argued that it was 20% increased, and now it's back to 30% more?

Wiki needs to be locked down or something.

"

iznobest wrote:

Im afraid I have to tell you that you are really mistaken. However the fact that this is not the most tanky build in existance, its tanky enough to clear lvl 78 maps without dying (i wouldnt call that glass cannon). I don't know if you ever played a build that uses AA, but the survivablity it gives is huge.

You're mistaken.

I almost always play with AA, but you cannot rely on just that for mitigation. It does NOTHING against big hits, so no it isn't a huge survivability boost. Against small hits, it's the most amazing thing ever.

Either way, I was saying that the build is a glass cannon by definition. Read it again.

"

iznobest wrote:

If you have read the guide entirely, I have mentioned all these 3 aspects and explained that these are not an issue AT all

There were parts I skimmed over, but let me show you how you didn't say so.

"

iznobest wrote:

Some extra remarks:
- Lightning warp and Tempest Shield can freeze! :D Also, linking your incinerate with added lightning damage can make it freeze/chill (you can also take the 5% freeze 16% cold damage in the shadow tree to cause your ALD-linked incinerate to freeze+shatter, though I personally don't think it's worth the points)
- Enfeeble has little effect as incinerate cannot crit
- As you run arctic armor, reflect damage has NO effect
- Lightning thorns is your nemesis, always be careful! This is also on of the biggest reasons for getting spell-block.
- I keep a mana-leech and a lvl 8-10 Arctic Armour in my inventory for maps with 50% regen mod

That right there screams that Lightning Thorns is a problem. You also cannot rely on block to counter it, especially if you have such low spell block.

However, if you use Life Leech and Mana Leech, Lightning Thorns does no damage even with no block. Additionally, block does not stop Corrupted Blood from ripping you apart and the leech gems help with that.

Leech > block in this case. Don't know how you believe otherwise.

"

iznobest wrote:

I dont use LL nor Mana leech and I clear maps without any issues, even vaal temple is no problem (except for the boss). It is ofcourse possible to use either of those gems, but they are not obligatory. Hoever, when using MoM, using a lavianga's is required.

If Lavinga's is required, then the Mana Leech gem is required. Mana Leech would always apply from the skill which means you can use a different flask.

If you prefer to use a flask for mana, then that means your mana pool isn't always topped off and that means less mana for MoM to feed out of. Less mana for MoM means more damage to life when you take it. ML > Lavinga's.

"

iznobest wrote:

To me it is clear that you post comments/critique on this without having read the full guide, read the replies, understand the complete mechanics or tested all skill-link possibilities yourself. I have tested dozens of different skill links and items posted as suggestions in these replies.

The only parts I didn't read:

Levling up your character (since almost no guide ever does so correctly)

Skill links (since those are shown in gear)

Bandits (obvious depending on the build)

So no, I technically didn't read your full guide nor am I going to sift through twelve pages of questions and possible notable comments. At least not at the moment.

So if anything...

"

iznobest wrote:

Feel free to ask questions or give input!

This should be removed.

"

I almost always play with AA, but you cannot rely on just that for mitigation. It does NOTHING against big hits, so no it isn't a huge survivability boost. Against small hits, it's the most amazing thing ever.

Either way, I was saying that the build is a glass cannon by definition. Read it again.

It is not a glass cannon build by definition
I would even go as far to say, being able to clear 78 constantly at a fast rate without dying makes it a non-glass-cannon build by definition

MOM+AA =/= glass cannon. tons and tons of builds rely on this combination for survivability.

You're saying AA is 'not a high survivability boost'. I think every single person that uses a caster build would competely disagree with you there

"

There were parts I skimmed over, but let me show you how you didn't say so.

quotes from my guide

about reflect:
- As you run arctic armor, reflect damage has NO effect

about lightning thorns:
- Stone of Lazhwar: additional spell block. A must to survive lightning-thorns
- Getting high block and high spell block also adds a lot to survability (spell-block is required for surviving lightning-thorns).

about corrupting blood:
- Corrupting blood will stack 20 times within 1 second. Always have a remove-bleed flask ready!!

I think this makes it clear that as I said in my previous post, I have mentioned all three aspects in my build. If this remains unclear, then please tell me what exactly is unclear. Then I will try to clarify this further.

"

That right there screams that Lightning Thorns is a problem. You also cannot rely on block to counter it, especially if you have such low spell block.

as soon as i got my stone of lahzwar, i HAVE NEVER EVER died of lightning thorns, ever. It is NOT a problem. I have played this build a freaking lot.
Having 'non-max spell-block' does not equal having 'low spell-block'. My build does not have a low spell block.

"

Additionally, block does not stop Corrupted Blood from ripping you apart

as i said in my previous post: get a remove-bleed flask already

"

If you prefer to use a flask for mana, then that means your mana pool isn't always topped off and that means less mana for MoM to feed out of. Less mana for MoM means more damage to life when you take it. ML > Lavinga's.

The Lavianga is something Bada_Bing suggested, and I agree with him completely that this flask is obligatory when using MoM with incinerate. The reason for that is not the mana-gain from the flask, but the fact that 'your spells don't cost mana'. This effect will prevent you from losing your incinerate stacks, and having to build them up again



About your comments on life leech and mana leech: Yes you can use them, and I do not say they are bad, I would even say they are very good.
However the goal of my current setup is to clear maps up to 79 at an insane speed (5 minutes) without dying. The only thing you cannot do is Dominus in palace or atziri. If you want to do that, then sure you can switch up alot of things to increase your survivability. Taking life leech would ofcourse be an easy first choice. You can also swap out 'fire pen' for life-leech at any moment you consider it required

"

This should be removed.

Ive replied to everyone in this thread nicely who gave input and came with questions. Youre just here to push my buttons and present 'facts' which are wrong or not thoroughly tested/researched therefore misinforming people that want to try this build

So what would you change to be able to kill Atziri? Just curious. I'm using this build and loving it so far. Now in Merciless, A2. Super fast clears. I never died until toward end of cruel and that was player error. I have all 3 uniques, but couldn't use the stone for awhile and there is no question that using it is a vast improvement.