One Week Nemesis Race Infographic

And IR/US have been like this since.. Yeah.
I'll keep waiting for a patch that makes me want to play again, I guess.

"

leighferon wrote:

"

Odoakar wrote:

It's a shame that GGG won't buff evasion, but will nerf IR/armor.

It's a recipe for a shitty aRPG.

u know i feel sad too. i feel like GGG is just a krogers card gathering info and nerfing things as they become popular.

the only thing i can recall lately that was a good step was CoCS.

there is a difference many cant see (or dont want to see):

'OVERF..POWERED broken' stuff and 'popular/fun'

IR belongs to the first group
CoCS belongs to the first group (many builds are OP as ever, that nerf was a clumsy one)
CwDT belonged to the first group
Sporker..
Cleave..

sadly in case of Cleave they went to far, CwDT - did not reach the goal (people are STILL not leveling it because.. why?), CoCS theyve fixed half of it.

aura stacking could have been fixed more elegantly (ie.: 2 max auras +unique affix/keystone to have a 3rd one or one free for BM.) etc etc (and you can still use all auras for free.. exploit/bug still not fixed)

hopefuly they fix Cast on Death summoners in 100%. it is sad to see few hours after the nerf 'solution' to how to avoid it (BM auras each map anyone?)

Regarding evasion:

I proposed several times (to GGG and on the forums) to add a damage mitigation to the evasion mechanic. Not only chance to dodge/avoid getting hit (You might even lower that a bit), but also to make evasion characters get hit less hard. Armor works with a formula that prevents a higher amount of % when the hits are small, and less % if the hits are big (ie. Carnage in the Colonade map).
Why can't evasion be the other way? Only a small percentage prevented if hit on small hits (like 5% on 500 damage, 10% on 2000 damage and 20% on 4000 and so forth depending on your amount of evasion), so that if you actually get hit a lower HP-pool is sufficient. That way armor is good for the small hits and Evasion helps for crits and the big swingy smashes. When you do it like that, even combined characters might become nice to try.

In the end IR gets used that often, because it fits into every build and is relatively easy accessible, You don't need a lot of points to get there from Ranger, Duelist or Scion, which are the most used classes. So to have a lot of gear flexibility, you use this node to be able to use more and cheaper chests and other gear. The node is just good, not broken or OP.

a couple reduced crit damage % taken on the ranger/shadow side, like what the marauder has, and somehow having evasion and/or es affect cb rate...etc etc would be two small but major improvements for shadows, etc.

it took me a few tries but i found a melee-ish shadow build that i absolutely love. im not to maps yet- only lvl 50 or so-but at that point in the game my shadow barely gets touched, even with lowish hp, and is definitely one of my most oped 50ish chars. that build is very purposeful though...i knew exactly what i was going for-it is NOT optimized for clear speed however...a claw/acrobatics/phase acro/crest of perandus/viper strike/blind/smoke mine/chance to flee/curse on hit temporal chains/insert trusted movement skill here--an oped hit and run build at its level...

but yeah, cb or some massive crit will probably end up destroying him eventually...and mom/eb are just too far away.

even with this build i dont have enough passives left really for the dot/chaos damage nodes (still trying to work that out) or extra crit or anything, despite them being close, because i have to stack hp as much as i can, not to mention all the nodes that go into having acrobatics. but still, viper strike is actually pretty strong without dot nodes (not endgame, i cant speak for that) and shadows can be VERY strong if you dont mind taking your time. the way i see it, currently they arent meant to be pure melee...but i feel like some players just want to run in and melee with shadows as if theyre a marauder/duelist...which is dangerous, and again, everyone is hung up on clear speed, which just isnt their style (unless you go cast on crit, wander, caster etc). the biggest issue though is leveling an ev/es build before you have the right keystones/gear...it can be pretty scary.

(these stats are amazing by the way! thanks ggg!)

wooow that is awesome so many stats to see....thanks for that..and dont nerv iron reflex again ;) but crazy that scions seems to be the class to go...im duelist all the time

"

t_golgari wrote:

Regarding evasion:

I proposed several times (to GGG and on the forums) to add a damage mitigation to the evasion mechanic. Not only chance to dodge/avoid getting hit (You might even lower that a bit), but also to make evasion characters get hit less hard. Armor works with a formula that prevents a higher amount of % when the hits are small, and less % if the hits are big (ie. Carnage in the Colonade map).
Why can't evasion be the other way? Only a small percentage prevented if hit on small hits (like 5% on 500 damage, 10% on 2000 damage and 20% on 4000 and so forth depending on your amount of evasion), so that if you actually get hit a lower HP-pool is sufficient. That way armor is good for the small hits and Evasion helps for crits and the big swingy smashes. When you do it like that, even combined characters might become nice to try.

In the end IR gets used that often, because it fits into every build and is relatively easy accessible, You don't need a lot of points to get there from Ranger, Duelist or Scion, which are the most used classes. So to have a lot of gear flexibility, you use this node to be able to use more and cheaper chests and other gear. The node is just good, not broken or OP.

thats a great idea! +1

Awesome stats considering not everyone who plays are experts at figuring some of these, and because there are more casual players like me who like to see this.


And GL GGG in more balancing I welcome the changes. Just hope its more buffing, rather than nerfing : )

/Cheers

Here are few of my comments on the data being presented in an infographic and taken for face value (I may be wrong on what GGG has actually done with data and analyzed and interpreted it as).

1. Right off the bat, race data may have a clear "Selection Bias", as race population leans towards more experienced players. Add to the mix that the race is hardcore (deaths means out of the race and straight to softcore) and the nemesis mods will get you if the shrines don't get you first. All these essentially repels the new, inexperienced players.

2. Now as more experienced players are playing this race, their theory crafting and hang of the game mechanics will almost always be better than the new players. This may be a confounder on the data analysis part.

3. As the race is short term and unforgiving, people usually try to go with a tried and tested route (better known as cookie-cutter builds) as no one would like to do a niche build in a 1 week race to test out the waters!

4. The number of characters is >25,000 but it does not say unique accounts, and many people (including myself) are known to run mules early on during the race to get some basic gems to help aid in a fresh league. What will be interesting of how that number would change with the "unique" criteria.

Apart from these there may be more things, I will edit the post to put those in as and when I get more time. Thanks for at least presenting us some raw basic data, number are always good to gaze upon. {TL:DR} - But my point being please just don't take data for face value and go on a Nerf'in spree!

My last comment is on a great point raised by VorcePA (on reddit), is that the most interesting data analysis would be on what was not taken and not done on the races and it will bring greater clarity of what needs some developer love.

I don't know I just think that IR is used so often because it means you don't have to care about getting gear with a lot of armor on it.

Just use grace and IR and it works even if you only have ES gear.

Also IR gives you the flexibility to use 4 different kinds of armor types, while evasion pretty much can only use pure evasion gear.

Evasion is pretty strong and with CwDT and immortal call/enduring cry it can tank many hits just as or even better than armor.

- IR/armor in general is always a solid choice for a new character, you will achieve high mitigation simply by avoiding dangerous mob types/affixes.

- Grace is the strongest of the three main defensive auras. It can easily provide more than all of your gear combined early in a league. With IR this can be used to achieve extremely high damage reduction very easily.

- stacking Grace and Determination results in ridiculous amounts of armor even naked. This is only made possible by IR. For this reason I don't think IR should work on anything else than evasion rating from gear pieces. Its main purpose seems to be to allow armor builds easier use of Dex based gems anyway.

- Scion trumps all "caster classes" thanks to her excellent starting area and easy access to IR. I don't know if this was supposed to be a late game class for niche builds that require a lot of levels, but at the moment she is "jack of all trades, master of almost everything".