BM and Auras - one of GGG's better jokes

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RagnarokChu wrote:

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Epicly_Curious wrote:

Yes, congrats.
The issue here is blood magic can not afford to even run 1.

Many builds that don't use blood magic can't run 2-3 anymore and some can't even run 1.

This wasn't a nerf just for BM.


Your going to need a greater reason then to buff it back other then "my personal build is less effective" when many other builds where just as affected.

My Shadow used all 3 elemental damage auras + Grace and Clarity... well not much left of that :P.

Also BM is still quite powerful even without a single aura. And making BM stronger by adding Mana to Life instead of just removing Mana would make it even stronger. Since you can't expect BM chars to not have an Aura even if they don't run it.

And actually this is a very simple drawback to BM it is hard to run an aura. Also with both uniques Mana-Reservation is reduced by about 75%, which would mean 60% x 0,25 x 0,75 x 0,71, which already is increadible low and allows 2 auras for about 15% reserved. Or Purity and a 60% Aura for 10%. Even Alpha Howl alone gives a nice reduction, because of increasing returns (reducing the reserved mana from 60 to 50% actually reduces the total amount required by 17%). Using Wrath and Anger simply isn't a nowbrainer anymore. Before the changes basically all BM chars did run these two auras, since there was almost no drawback, due to the life-reduction being so low (also most did run Grace too).

The Point in BM and RT since they are quite similar in this regards basically is to make it easier to equip a char. Since you lose 3(2) stats with RT and 2 with BM that you simply don't care about anymore. Mana/Mana-Reg and Crit-Chance/Damage are dropped from the equation together with accuracity. Building around these nodes simplifies equiping a char dramatically and exspecially Mana based Melee-Chars that don't even go near the witch-area have trouble running anything besides clarity, without having to spend a BM-Gem on their main-attack and basically anything they want to use periodically.

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Odoakar wrote:

I've tried running grace with around 23% life reservation, and you feel the lack of health. You really do.

I firmly stand behind the opinion that BM with even one aura is not viable.

I think one aura is just as viable as flat auras were in Open Beta.

You need to remember: life got buffed, a lot. The additional +2 life per level adds 160 life for a level 80 character, which we can conservatively guess is a 1.15 multiplier. Also, all of the life nodes now have higher values (not to mention the nice hybrid life/damage nodes), which is also about another 1.15 multiplier. Overall, that's about 32% more life.

1.32*(1-0.24) = 1.0032

So all running one aura does is counteract the Release buff to Life, setting you back to Beta standards. Therefore, saying running one aura isn't viable is a lot like saying Life wasn't viable at all in Beta.

Now let's be honest: life was viable in beta, but it was noticeably underpowered compared to ES. So while it's fair to say that running one aura now is underpowered, it's not fair to say it isn't viable.

Truth is, an aura on Blood Magic looks a lot worse than it actually is. It's close to being at the right power level, it just needs a slight nudge. That's why 40% is the right setting; more powerful, definitely, but not too much.

That 1.15 multiplier seems strange. Lvl 80 character could easily get to 3500 health. 3660/3500=1,05.

I'm currently at 3400 life, 2618/3400 seems a bit scary. And feels like right now. Maybe once I get to 4-4,5k, running one aura might be fine.

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Odoakar wrote:

That 1.15 multiplier seems strange. Lvl 80 character could easily get to 3500 health.

That's final life, not base life. I'm talking 160 extra life before factoring in % increased max life; if you have, say, 250% increase, that 160 base is 560 final.

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Odoakar wrote:

"Blood Magic is very strong because the auras are so powerful and the mana reservation can be mitigated very heavily using passives, items and the support gem.", Chris Wilson, October 2013.

I guess he was joking because the new Aura mechanics make it nearly impossible to even run one decent aura with BM, even with the 30% reduction passive. My Ranger can't use Auras at the moment, needs much more life, not sure if it is worth at all (Grace because of Iron Reflexes).
I am happy that my Eldritch Battery Witch can at least run 3 Auras (formerly 6) but more would be not possible I guess.

I would really like to know what GGG had in mind with these 60% Manareservation Auras. It's a huge nerf, especialy for solo players. I thought they wanted to buff solo players but maybe that's just wishful thinking.

Its obvious what they had in mind.

People were using aura's because they were stupidly powerful and easy to run multiple auras.

They wanted aura's to be more of a DECISION you made, not a 'fuckit, why not'

As such now they are always a decision. My melee build doesn't always run hatred, because sometimes I find it easier to just have the higher mana pool available so my skills can last longer.

Its now a decision.

Sure some builds struggle more than others to use Auras. If you focus on the aura passives you can get quite good at auras.

Almost like its a choice.



The real issue is BM's less mana reserved, and the fact that for high life, running one aura is now a ridiculous cost, but at the same thing this one passive point needs to be balanced based on if you run lots of passives and even a few items to reduce mana cost of auras, it could become too easy to run multiple auras with it

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Real_Wolf wrote:

The real issue is BM's less mana reserved, and the fact that for high life, running one aura is now a ridiculous cost, but at the same thing this one passive point needs to be balanced based on if you run lots of passives and even a few items to reduce mana cost of auras, it could become too easy to run multiple auras with it

That is indeed an excellent summation of the problem.

The answer to that problem is 40%.

Which, by the way, isn't too terribly far from where we are now; from 21% for Purity to 18%, assuming Reduced Mana support and no other reductions. Still, going from 790 life to 820 is 3.8% more.

As long as the Blood magic support gem exists, blood magic keystone will be a terrible choice.

I present thee two options:

The first is to run blood magic keystone and get to run purity for a fifth of your health.

The other is to run the mana reservation cluster and get to run purity, hatred, and grace at no cost to health, instead the cost of the blood magic gem on your main skill's link. You don't have to worry about mana for other crap because we now have cast on damage taken. The extra power from the additional auras will dwarf losing the support gem.

THIS DECISION IS HARD!

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Gravethought wrote:

As long as the Blood magic support gem exists, blood magic keystone will be a terrible choice.

I present thee two options:

The first is to run blood magic keystone and get to run purity for a fifth of your health.

The other is to run the mana reservation cluster and get to run purity, hatred, and grace at no cost to health, instead the cost of the blood magic gem on your main skill's link. You don't have to worry about mana for other crap because we now have cast on damage taken. The extra power from the additional auras will dwarf losing the support gem.

THIS DECISION IS HARD!

You raise an interesting point.

If we take into account items + reservation on the tree, at what point is the 100% 'mana' cost on BM in tree (as opposed to 250% from BM support gem) outweighing the benefits of the running aura's on mana and paying 250% cost for your main skill?

Simple numbers, if reserving costs 500 health (ridiculous), and your skill costs normally 50 mana and attacks 3 times per second, thats 150 health/second with BM and 1500 health for the 3 auras. With BM support, you can easily hit the 3 auras without caring, but now your weapon is costing 125 'mana' and so you are burning 375 health/second, which would be more expensive to maintain and would take 4 seconds of attacking to have 'lost' the health you had reserved through the BM keystone

I think there's a few decent solutions.

Would be interesting if they changed Mortal Conviction to something like, "80% Reduced Aura Reservation. Cannot Activate more than one Aura at a time."

Would be powerful, would force you to still grab a few of the other aura passives, but not as stupid as it is right now.

With all of the passives in the tree, and using an item like Alpha's Howl, you could probably get the reservation down to like 13-15% or so. But that is still stupid compared to the alternative - getting 25% reduction in the tree, and locking up your mana with THREE auras, then using a blood magic gem. With 25% Reduction in the tree and Reduced Mana you can get auras down to 33% or 32% an aura. Much better use of time than trying to lock up 1000 life for one aura.