Warning for Ultra widescreen Mod after I disabled it

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

Misleading Use of Achievement Data

It paints a very good picture of what aspects of the game that most people value.

Wrong.

I already told you yesterday that your achievement data is LITERALLY useless.

First, you said "but only 11% got the level 80 achievement" and I already explained to you it's meaningless.
These achievements include EVERY SINGLE user who installed PoE via Steam and at least played for 1 second. Thus, the numbers are inflated as hell because PoE has been on Steam for over a decade.
Furthermore, according to Chris, 50% of ppl who try out PoE leave in Act 1, which is totally normal for a Free2Play game.
Furtherfurthermore, Steam achievements only reflect Steam and not ppl who use the standalone client.

Now it seems like you use meaningless achievement data AGAIN...
Where did you even get the "6% of players have reached level 8 in a race" from?
It's like you always try to find the least meaningful but hyperspecific data to support your point.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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I have to ask—do you believe GGG is lying or misinformed about their own engine? Because their stated reason for the cap has nothing to do with racing and everything to do with making sure enemies don’t disappear mid-fight.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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I have to ask—do you believe GGG is lying or misinformed about their own engine? Because their stated reason for the cap has nothing to do with racing and everything to do with making sure enemies don’t disappear mid-fight.

And that still, is the players choice to engage with.

I get that they're trying to protect people, and give them a good experience, but they're also issuing warnings for it.

Which is why it's problematic. If I want to play a game on an ultra-widescreen, and have enemies randomly disappear once in a while. That's MY choice.

They've done their job, and warned us. They've also told us they won't support it. The warnings of bans are unnecessary, over-reaching. And the argument that it maintains competitive integrity doesn't hold, if there's huge downsides to it like this.

To me. From the way GGG describes it, as well as people like you. The issues surrounding Widescreen outweigh the advantages. It's a worse experience.

Now, this argument is entirely null and void. If me playing on my widescreen monitor breaks GGG's servers. I accepted this when CoC builds were nerfed. Even if I loved them and wanted to play more. But if it's not breaking their servers or backend. I don't see why this is an issue.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

Misleading Use of Achievement Data

It paints a very good picture of what aspects of the game that most people value.

Wrong.

I already told you yesterday that your achievement data is LITERALLY useless.

First, you said "but only 11% got the level 80 achievement" and I already explained to you it's meaningless.
These achievements include EVERY SINGLE user who installed PoE via Steam and at least played for 1 second. Thus, the numbers are inflated as hell because PoE has been on Steam for over a decade.
Furthermore, according to Chris, 50% of ppl who try out PoE leave in Act 1, which is totally normal for a Free2Play game.
Furtherfurthermore, Steam achievements only reflect Steam and not ppl who use the standalone client.

Now it seems like you use meaningless achievement data AGAIN...
Where did you even get the "6% of players have reached level 8 in a race" from?
It's like you always try to find the least meaningful but hyperspecific data to support your point.

Could you please provide some data that can contradict mine then? It would be much appreciated. I like to learn, and you providing me with some solid data will help me to change my stance on this matter.

Thanks in advance Jakker.

Could you answer these questions.

How many people play on the Standalone Client?

If Steam achievements are useless, and misrepresent Data. Then what other sources do we have other than GGG's "Trust me bro" statements? Game companies are not always transparent. I have played many that are not honest with their numbers.

If PoE has been on steam for over a decade. Why is the player count so low and so inconsistent compared to other games that have been on steam for a decade?

Why is the player count so low, and so volatile compared to other live service games? DotA 2 manages to maintain above 600k players. Destiny 2 is an entirely seasonal game that manages to retain 40% of it's players. And its even an ARPG.

What about games like Hades, using a paid model, an ARPG maintaining 80% of players compared to PoE? It doesn't have XP loss on death, or many of the mechanics claimed to keep PoE thriving.

The game had well over a million pre-orders. And more people bought it on release. Where are all of them? The game has 23k players today, on steam. Are they on the standalone client instead?

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Wrong.

Do you think you two could have a normal conversation without having to judge other peoples opinions as if you are somehow the arbiter of truth?

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

Hasty Generalization – You assume that 99% of people only play race events for free rewards and then delete their character. While many players might do this, you haven't provided data to support such a sweeping claim.

I don't get what you mean in the part I quoted you for here, are you implying that some people decide to keep playing their character from the race after the event?

99% is actually too conservative since it's literally 100% in this case as GGG deletes your race character for you if you didn't yourself. After the first race event, which I played in, I tried to log in to my character the day after because I was curious about something regarding the gear, but it was not possible to do so. The race events functioned as leagues of their own which ended after the event.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Could you please provide some data that can contradict mine then? It would be much appreciated. I like to learn, and you providing me with some solid data will help me to change my stance on this matter.

Dude... Chris Wilson gave us information about this stuff over the years.
That 50% of players quit in Act 1 was mentioned in the interview I sent you yesterday already.

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How many people play on the Standalone Client?

That around half the ppl use the Steam client was mentioned somewhere else by Chris.

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If Steam achievements are useless, and misrepresent Data. Then what other sources do we have other than GGG's "Trust me bro" statements? Game companies are not always transparent. I have played many that are not honest with their numbers.

No... body... cares... that you "played this or that where things were this or that". It's GGG. If YOU don't trust their data/statements, it's a you problem.

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If PoE has been on steam for over a decade. Why is the player count so low and so inconsistent compared to other games that have been on steam for a decade?

Why is the player count so low, and so volatile compared to other live service games? DotA 2 manages to maintain above 600k players. Destiny 2 is an entirely seasonal game that manages to retain 40% of it's players. And its even an ARPG.

What are you even talking about? PoE's last league had a player retention of 230k on Steam, then around the same amount of ppl using the "standalone client" (that makes it 460k) and then on top of that ppl who use console and the "Chinese Client". So they produce similar numbers to "Dota 2" on league start... and that's not even PoE2...

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What about games like Hades, using a paid model, an ARPG maintaining 80% of players compared to PoE? It doesn't have XP loss on death, or many of the mechanics claimed to keep PoE thriving.

Are you tripping?
Hades 1: https://steamcharts.com/app/1145360
Hades 2: https://steamcharts.com/app/1145350

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The game had well over a million pre-orders. And more people bought it on release. Where are all of them? The game has 23k players today, on steam. Are they on the standalone client instead?

See... here you COULD actually make a useful conclusion...
Over a million bought the key, but the ALL TIME PEAK is "only" 580k.
Where are these ppl... hmmm... could... could it be that they DO NOT USE STEAM?
And that's only ppl who BOUGHT it. Many ppl, including myself, got the key for free from GGG, so... are you able at least once to understand that the numbers look differently in reality!?

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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Pretty sure "player choice" ends when the ToS begins, and currently, this is against ToS. If they change it in the future, that's their call.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Dude... Chris Wilson gave us information about this stuff over the years.
That 50% of players quit in Act 1 was mentioned in the interview I sent you yesterday already.

That around half the ppl use the Steam client was mentioned somewhere else by Chris.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

No... body... cares... that you "played this or that where things were this or that". It's GGG. If YOU don't trust their data/statements, it's a you problem.

Chris is actually confirming the Steam Achievements as reliable. The numbers match. 50% quit, vs 45.2% beat Act 1.




They are not nonsense. The claims they are irrelevant and bloated does not match, as the number chris gives, and the achievement for act 1 are close enough to confirm accuracy. 50% of players beat Brutus, Act 1. 45% of players beat Merveil, Act 1. Corresponds to Chris's 50% quit act 1 claim.

There is a direct example, Hades 1. Which has 48% of players beating the game. taking your Average player, as per online data. About 70-100 hours to complete.



Hades 1 also sold 1 million copies. If achievement bloat was a factor, as claimed. It would show here too. But instead we see a 48% on the main story completion achievement.

The comparison is more apt, as to reach the end of Act 8 in PoE 1. Most players could do that in about 30-40 hours. Hades, takes 70-100.

In PoE 1. 75% of people quit by the end of Act 6. Which someone could reach in about 20 hours. Even as a new player.



These achievement to me, Shows someone has played the game at least 60-70 hours in PoE 1. Even if you're a new player.









Standalone client and console numbers? Speculation. The claim from GGG needs to be validated with more sources.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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Pretty sure "player choice" ends when the ToS begins, and currently, this is against ToS. If they change it in the future, that's their call.

You're right. However. This 'hack' is a grey area. Their ToS doesn't cover it. Which is why they're issuing warnings, and not bans. It's not comparable to the things they're usually trying to protect against. Like hackers, botters, cheaters, using programs to edit items, or instakill bosses.

Regardless. Not all ToS from a company are legally valid. They can over-reach. I would say banning customers for using a resolution in the game that you don't want them to. Would be scrutinized by a good Judge.

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

Chris is actually confirming the Steam Achievements as reliable. The numbers match. 50% quit, vs 45.2% beat Act 1.

They are not nonsense. The claims they are irrelevant and bloated does not match, as the number chris gives, and the achievement for act 1 are close enough to confirm accuracy.

So refreshing, another conclusion fallacy...
Do 50% of ppl who installed and tested PoE via Steam leave in Act 1?
Yes, confirmed by Chris Wilson himself. On top, the achievement that only indicated it now has valuable proof (Chris) to make this conclusion true.

Now, does that mean that "only 11% of ppl reached level 80"?
No. Because you apply a "late game" achievement (reaching maps) to the actual player base (ppl who play PoE), when the data you rely on includes EVERYONE who tested PoE for even a second.

Let's say 1.000.000 ppl download and test PoE.
From that 1.000.000 ppl, 50% don't go past Act 1.
That leaves us with 500.000 past Act 1.
Over the campaign, there were multiple points where bigger chunks of people quit, and Chris confirmed everything. Some drop in Act 3, some later.
At the end of the campaign, only a smaller group is left.
THESE ppl form your "11% of players reached level 80" - the ACTUAL player base, the target demographic.
And most of these remaining players, who reached maps, rarely quit.
Confirmed by Chris, too.
You know, the saying "If you hit maps - GGG owns your soul" is a thing in this community for a reason.
If you "survived" the campaign filter (reached maps), you are so hooked by the game that you stay.

Listen. I know you want to be the one who knows better, that you are the chosen one who understands the matrix, but you are not.
GGG gathered ALL that data over a decade and analysed it to the core.
They know how many only tested the game, how far they came, who stayed, for how long, and so on.
If you claim something about the "player base" (ppl who got NOT filtered), you CANNOT rely on Steam achievements.

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The comparison is more apt, as to reach the end of Act 8 in PoE 1. Most players could do that in about 30-40 hours. Hades, takes 70-100.

Doesn't matter. You compare time instead of difficulty and quality of the content in that time.

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Standalone client and console numbers? Speculation. The claim from GGG needs to be validated with more sources.

No. It does not need more vAlIdAtIoN... Chris said it, and that's the needed validation.

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Regardless. Not all ToS from a company are legally valid. They can over-reach. I would say banning customers for using a resolution in the game that you don't want them to. Would be scrutinized by a good Judge.

Nope. They alter the game (client) with a mod to achieve this change, thus, their actions against it are legally supported. You accepted the EULA, break it and you have nothing in court to rely on.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

So refreshing, another conclusion fallacy...
Do 50% of ppl who installed and tested PoE via Steam leave in Act 1?
Yes, confirmed by Chris Wilson himself. On top, the achievement that only indicated it now has valuable proof (Chris) to make this conclusion true.

Hard fact is. Steam Achievements, and Chris Wilson's claim. Match. 50% of people don't pass Act 1, they quit. This validifies achievements as an accurate measurement of player retention.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Now, does that mean that "only 11% of ppl reached level 80"?
No. Because you apply a "late game" achievement (reaching maps) to the actual player base (ppl who play PoE), when the data you rely on includes EVERYONE who tested PoE for even a second.

Like I said. Chris Wilson's number, and Steams Achievement number. MATCH.

How is Steams number, incorrect?

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Let's say 1.000.000 ppl download and test PoE.
From that 1.000.000 ppl, 50% don't go past Act 1.
That leaves us with 500.000 past Act 1.
Over the campaign, there were multiple points where bigger chunks of people quit, and Chris confirmed everything. Some drop in Act 3, some later.
At the end of the campaign, only a smaller group is left.
THESE ppl form your "11% of players reached level 80" - the ACTUAL player base, the target demographic.

Yup. Then Chris himself is confirming that the Achievements are accurate. As they correlate to what he's saying.

Has he said directly "Steam Achievements are wrong?"

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

And most of these remaining players, who reached maps, rarely quit.
Confirmed by Chris, too.

Absolutely. Exactly what I'm claiming as well. The game. Most people come and play the campaign. And what's left over after they all leave is a small, niche playerbase. Full of Whales and Addicts.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

You know, the saying "If you hit maps - GGG owns your soul" is a thing in this community for a reason.
If you "survived" the campaign filter (reached maps), you are so hooked by the game that you stay.

Thank you for confirming my earlier statements. I mentioned how this game is designed in such a way that it is aimed at keeping some people playing, almost indefinitely.

I also pointed out how this is - unhealthy game design. I have given examples as to how it is taking advantage of people. Through gameplay design, and predatory manipulative practices. Like obfuscation in the MTX store. Or the constant resets, aimed at giving you a fresh play. Very Addictive!

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Listen. I know you want to be the one who knows better, that you are the chosen one who understands the matrix, but you are not.

I never claimed I knew better. I was explaining how this game was predatory, and missing an opportunity to capture a huge chunk of the playerbase that doesn't like all the predatory gameplay design.

I was saying GGG could do better! You've confirmed, and repeated everything I've written in all of my posts with this one here.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

GGG gathered ALL that data over a decade and analysed it to the core.
They know how many only tested the game, how far they came, who stayed, for how long, and so on.

Yup! And they use this data to... Design the game to extract the most amount of money, and time. Out of those that stay.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

If you claim something about the "player base" (ppl who got NOT filtered), you CANNOT rely on Steam achievements.

Except, I can. Because Chris himself, has stated numbers that correlate to Steam Achievements. He speaks of the same pattern that you can see in Achievements.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

Doesn't matter. You compare time instead of difficulty and quality of the content in that time.

Don't shift the goalpost. You argue Hades is a low quality game? I say it's an incredibly good one. I've played both PoE and Hades. It's a -VERY- good game.

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JakkerONAIR#4902 wrote:

No. It does not need more vAlIdAtIoN... Chris said it, and that's the needed validation.

Validating claims is important. And NECESSARY. To forming your own opinion on something.

Yes, you can trust someone. But if you're going to have a discussion with someone. Verify the claim first. Otherwise, it is speculation. The basis of an emotional argument.


You have, word for word, confirmed everything I was claiming. That PoE is a game balanced in such a way. To HOOK players, and keep them playing. Most people quit. The achievements, and Chris, Confirm it.

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Now. The issue that you have to look into now. Is how this is unhealthy, exploitative of players. And how the game quality suffers because of these design decisions.

Yes, it hooks you.

But addiction isn't enjoyment.


I'll also take this one step further.

If you are the target demographic. 5% of players, out of 100%, and 90-95% leave. You are the minority in that situation.


Anyways. Thanks for the comment. I'm glad you finally were able to understand finally what I was saying. Instead of trying to directly refute everything, argue against it.

Sorry, I hit submit by accident the first time!

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

I don't want to be right. I am defending my position. I already told you, I am willing to be wrong. I actually want to be proven wrong. Please provide data to back up your claims.

You want to be right. In fact, you want to be right so hard that you even pretend that statements from Chris (GGG) are not valid enough, you know, the ppl who ACTUALLY know better than everyone else.
Every single time someone presents you with data, statements, and explains to you why you make basic conclusion fallacies, you try to find a new nonsensical goalpost to "be right".
Hell... you don't even argue only against me, you argue against others who told you in different ways WHY you are not right. Ever wondered why nobody comes and helps to defend your bla!?

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I also don't see how Achievements are inaccurate. They're accurate enough to paint a picture of what parts of the games people play, and player retention.

Already explained it to you multiple times. If you cannot comprehend why Steam achievements are not reliable data to base your claims on, nobody can help you.

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You argue PoE 2 needs to stay the same for these whales. I say, GGG could 'lessen' some of the worst attributes of this game, and gain new players, as there is an enormous untapped potential playerbase that likes OTHER aspects of the game more than what the whales like.

Not what I say. Anyway.

Have you watched the interview I linked to you now... what... over a day ago!?
THERE you would get your answer WHY they don't change some things, even IF it would mean more ppl who play the game. But again, you don't care and/or ignore because you want to push your agenda.