XP penalty and likely 1 portal is NOT going anywhere

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1453R#7804 wrote:

That's the problem, really.

You think One Portal is unfair, overly punitive, and hurts map sustain, and want Six Portal back because PoE1.

I absolutely loathe the idea of going back to Six Portals. It feels like an absolute downgrade, backslide, and like giving up entirely on making PoE2 its own game. It both makes death utterly meaningless because you never lose anything due to having a hundred trillion attempts at every map, and makes death massively more punitive than it has any right to be because burning all hundred trillion of your attempts at a map zeroes out your XP bar and sets you back weeks of grind at higher levels. If people continue to be unreasonably assmad over One Portal and force GGG to go back to Six* Portals? They may as well just shut PoE2 down altogether and announce the abandonment of the project, because there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep the new game going if they're just gonna cave and go back on every single decision they made to try and make the new game a meaningfully new and different experience.

Far, far, far better to simply make waystone sustain more attainable within One Portal and do away with XP penalties on death. Race to 100 people literally never die anyways so it doesn't affect them at all, every strategy for the twenty or so people actually serious about 'Race to 100' involves doing ultra safe content in large groups to make steady, guaranteed progress. There's a reason guilds win Race to 100, not people.

Don't abandon all the things that make PoE2 a new, different, better game just because they didn't stick the landing a hundred percent out of the gates.

Shut the game down? Stop being dramatic. The game absolutely does not have to have one portal to be good and it's own game. Heck I doubt there were many players who even knew it would be that way. I would like to see three portals. One is just stupid coupled with the xp penalty. Losing xp is enough of a punishment. I don't know why you care about maps being completed.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Actually, every single player can farm and progress at the same amount / hour. So if you have 100h over 30 days or 100h over 5 days you can farm the exact same. Unless you are actually saying that people playing more should not be rewarded more ???

One player playing for 10k hours doesn't mean someone else will.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

An let's talk about cherry picking comment. It seems you ignored my comment and forgot to reply to me, please do so, in detail, so we can continue this civil conversation

You mean the same way that you keep ignoring that PoE2 endgame plays exactly like PoE1 and that clear speed is still the meta? Yeah, let's continue that topic civically.

I hope ggg stays true to their word.

PoE just forces you into Meta builds if you want to succeed.

That big old Talent tree is a farce, full of dead nodes that you won't use.

Hard to stomach these games that end up with only a few viable builds if you want to not feel useless and depressed. (this is how I feel when I watch my son play a Meta build).

Maybe I will check back when the game is developed a bit more. Doubt it will be any different than PoE 1 in the end though. Why would they change something too much that is making them money right?

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Punitive death penalties do not a better game make.

they can. if they're the right kind of punitive. XP loss and taking away your already-achieved progress is not the right kind of punitive. Saying "you tried this map, you bricked it, better luck next node" is a much better kind of punitive. If 'punitive' is the word you wish to use.

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Reversing a death penalty decision does not make death meaningless (as you still lose exp down to "zero exp' for your level) nor does it detract from or change the multitudes of different and modernized systems. You do not magically have babillions of attempts, you have 6. You do not magically start smashing your head against content you can't reliably complete with 6 portals, you play what you can complete. Pretty sure the over juicers are a minority and either they enjoy the masochism or are much too greedy.

Categorically incorrect. There is no effective difference between six portals and infinite portals in the overwhelming majority of cases. Six portals is enough to zero out almost any XP bar if someone decides to smashface against the map. And people absolutely push harder than they can sustain or clear. Why do you think the forums are constantly filled with endless whingeing about how haaaard the game is? Hell, even you are unwilling to admit that most of your deaths are your own fault; to quote:

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

I have more fingers on one hand than times I can honestly say it was my fault I died or a clear example of being under geared since entering maps.

The number of times I've seen people say "I'm a GOD at [Path of Exile/Elden Ring/Armored Core/Soul Calibur/whatever-other-game-one-pleases-here], I CAN'T fail! If I die it's the GAME'S fault!" is...well. Vastly higher than the number of fingers on any hand you care to name.

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

The vast majority of us just don't want to lose the map from one dumb mistake or a zoom zoom hyper rare that suddenly smashes us in less time than it takes to blink or some random white critting a planets aligning extra damage attack you didn't see coming in the horde of 20 something other mobs when 99+% of the time the same level of juicing on the same tier of maps poses no serious threat.

If you eliminate every possible penalty for dying and failing, what's the point of playing? if it's actually factually impossible to lose a map because "losing a map to a stupid mistake or some Cryptid Bogeyman neverseeum rare that RKO'd me outta nowhere is dumb!", then what possible failure state could there be for the game?

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

Your relentless hyperbole is unnecessary.

Love how people always accuse me of hyperbole instead of y'know, actually arguing. Sure, I like to be colorful and creative instead of boring as a Path of Exile with absolutely no failure state and thus no success state. Does it actually change the essence of anything I'm saying?

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CPTBRUMBL3Z#3146 wrote:

If you truly feel that strongly about it, then propose a third league type, like "Veteran" or something, that lets you enjoy the punitive death penalties to your heart's content. Let the rest of us actually enjoy the game without randomly getting a giant middle finger smashed into our faces just because GGG can't balance mob power for shit.

Or, here's a thought - don't assblast your maps so fast you can't see what's happening on the screen. There's maybe three instances I can bring to mind in my PoE2 run so far where I legitimately don't know what killed me. Them's the breaks sometimes in a game featuring wild randomization, though. And frankly, those moments are so worth it for the rush of being thrown a real curveball by the system and figuring out how to work around it and scrape through victorious anyways. There's a reason Deadly Evolution is far and away my favorite node on the Atlas tree.

Yeah, sometimes DE means I fight a boss in a tight spot with some dumbass mod like Siphons Mana and Deals Lightning Damage and I eat a death. Oh well. Worth it, for all the fun duels with powerful threats DE gives me (and all the buffs to loot, to boot). Nor are my builds particularly slow - they don't zoom like a 500% movespeed attribute stacker Nonsensolium build, no, but my favorite/highest-level character right now is a Relentless Assault crossbow Pathfinder specifically configured for high agility combat.

Mob power is fine, with a few ugly exceptions one can easily keep an eye out for in most cases. And frankly, losing the occasional map is just par for the course in Softcore. Why it should be seen as some horrifying game-breaking deal-shattering Hyper Nightmare, I will never understand.

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1453R#7804 wrote:

..

The six portal mechanic isn't just a convenience or a nostalgia trip, it was a critical element of the game’s pacing and difficulty curve. While PoE2 seeks to make meaningful changes to its gameplay, disregarding player feedback and ignoring the deep connection to the core PoE1 mechanics risks alienating the community. The emotional investment players had in the older system—where they were given a reasonable number of retries—created a more dynamic and less frustrating experience. Reducing the portal count to just one could make players feel overly constrained, leading to more frustration when mistakes happen.

Having just one portal could result in a much harsher punishment for death, especially in a game as chaotic as Path of Exile. Higher-tier maps, high-level content, and challenging bosses could lead to frequent deaths due to the game’s inherent complexity. Losing a portal means losing everything: XP, progress, and potentially valuable resources. This feeling of "everything is on the line" can create an immense amount of stress, which is contrary to the enjoyment many players get from the game. The six portals offered an appropriate risk/reward dynamic, balancing the thrill of exploration with the safety net of retries.

The one-portal mechanic can hurt map sustain in a variety of ways. Players can feel incentivized to play excessively safe or even avoid certain content altogether for fear of dying and wasting their single attempt. This could slow down progression, especially when trying to build up a strong economy around maps and resources. Six portals allowed players to take a few calculated risks, making it easier to sustain progress and explore more challenging content without fear of permanent setback.

A major downside of the one-portal system is the potential for severe XP penalties, especially at higher levels where even small mistakes can lead to significant setbacks. The idea of setting back weeks of grind due to a single failure is a bitter pill for players to swallow, and it could lead to burnout more easily. PoE is already a game that demands a lot of time and effort from players; penalizing them further for a death could make it feel excessively punishing, causing players to abandon the game or shift their focus away from riskier, more fun content.

The appeal of Path of Exile, and by extension PoE2, is its balance of risk and reward. Players don’t want to feel like they’re walking on eggshells the entire time, but they also don’t want an easy ride where death means nothing. Six portals were the sweet spot, allowing players to engage with difficult content without fearing that a single mistake would cause them to lose everything. Limiting portals to one risks breaking that balance and could lead to frustration, making it less fun for the majority of players.

Having multiple portals provides more room for player agency, encouraging exploration and experimentation. With only one portal, players might feel forced to optimize for the least risky playstyle, which could stifle creativity. PoE’s strength lies in the diverse ways players can approach challenges; six portals foster that diversity, whereas one portal might make the game more rigid and less enjoyable for those who love to push their limits.

The desire for six portals isn't purely nostalgic. It's about long-term engagement with the game. PoE has always been a marathon, not a sprint, and part of what made it appealing was that players could take risks, explore new content, and recover from mistakes. The one-portal system might push players to play more cautiously, but for many, that doesn’t make the game more enjoyable or fulfilling—it just makes it more frustrating. If PoE2 is to maintain a dedicated player base, it needs to strike a balance that allows players to take risks and enjoy long-term progression without excessively punishing them for mistakes.

In conclusion, the preference for six portals is less about clinging to PoE1's mechanics and more about preserving the core balance of risk, reward, and player satisfaction that PoE has always been known for. Reducing portals to one could undermine these aspects and make the game feel unnecessarily punishing, potentially turning off long-time players and making it harder to sustain engagement in the long run.

Furthermore, The argument that six portals are "enough to zero out XP" is valid in some cases, but it ignores the psychological aspect of the game. Even if someone can theoretically clear a map with six portals, there’s still a strong emotional and gameplay-driven deterrent against messing up. For players, having the possibility of running out of portals—and potentially losing all progress—is a significant motivator to play more cautiously and wisely. It's not about whether six portals are technically enough to zero out your XP, it’s about creating an environment where players must balance risk and reward. Lowering that number too much could turn the game into an endless grind of cautious play, robbing it of excitement.

Players complain about how hard the game is, but the "whingeing" is often a result of feeling forced to optimize every single play session for minimal risk, especially at high levels. If the penalties are too severe or the maps are too punishing with one portal, players are more likely to play in an ultra-safe manner that stifles creativity and fun. Part of the challenge that makes Path of Exile exciting is the ability to make bold plays, but that can’t happen if the risk of a single mistake results in a devastating loss of progression. Six portals gave a buffer that allowed players to take calculated risks, push harder, and experiment with builds and content. It’s about engagement—one portal can make players feel trapped in a cycle of over-optimization and caution rather than pushing the boundaries of what their builds can handle.

Saying that six portals don’t add any real difference is an oversimplification of the experience. Players love Path of Exile for the freedom it offers. Six portals give players the choice to go in, risk it, and see how far they can get, while still having the option to retreat and recoup if they push too hard. One portal might make people feel like they have to play perfectly or lose everything, thus stripping away a lot of the excitement that comes from knowing you have a limited buffer to mess around with. The feeling of having a limited number of attempts is part of the thrill—when you only have one shot, every decision feels heavier, but not necessarily in a fun way.

Six portals are a compromise between infinite attempts and one shot. It strikes a balance between offering enough retries for players to experiment and make mistakes while still having an appropriate sense of challenge and risk. The overall feeling of progress and accomplishment is better sustained when players can take risks and push harder while knowing that they aren’t totally doomed if they fail. Six portals created a more relaxed yet still challenging atmosphere that allowed players to experiment without excessively punishing them for every slip-up. One portal, as it is, often results in unnecessary stress rather than adding meaningful difficulty.

The concern about portals isn’t just about nostalgia; it’s about understanding how player risk, progression, and challenge fit together. Six portals offered a good balance of opportunity and consequence. If one portal results in too much punishment for failure, it risks making the game less fun for a large portion of the player base. So yeah, change is great—but it has to be the right kind of change.

In the end, PoE2 should feel different, but the core elements of player choice, risk, and progression should remain rewarding, and changes like the portal system need to be handled in a way that doesn’t make the game feel frustrating for players who don’t want to play perfectly 100% of the time.

Why does everyone think that players are idiots? In every thread like this, the arguments against 1-portal and xp penalty seem to assume that players are literally brainless robots incapable of learning, adjusting, and making real decisions.

From what I know of "normal" gamers, they instinctively know to test the waters in harder content, and if they get trounced, they go back a farm a bit more or make build adjustments....and then try again. This is the most basic of basic gaming strategy.

It is the FOOL or IDIOT who requires 6 portals to tell them the content is too hard for them. And lets also not forget that you learn from waystone to waystone too....not just in a single waystone.

If players feel uber stressed about the 1-portal, lose everything penalty....they truly are NOT playing the game in a healthy way. Sure, you lose everything...FOR THAT MAP ONLY. Guess what? Play another. It is the SAME game loop as if it were 6 portals, its just encouraging you far more effectively to improve and think about your build. It disallows "stupidity", which is a good thing.

As others said, random deaths in PoE 1 AND PoE 2 are rarely "random". If you are constantly dying, it is because YOU are doing something wrong, or your build isn't up to snuff.


To the comment of "6 portals was necessary/baked into the pacing of PoE 1".....no, it wasn't. It lead to the consistent meta of glass cannon 1-shot, kill everything builds. Why? Because if you slipped and died, it didn't matter. You had 5 more attempts. At the very least, you could go back and loot everything up until the point you died, with no repercussions for your "poor" build. Even veteran players didn't know how to build defenses correctly because...they never needed to thanks to 6 portals. In fact, the 6-portal system is probably what contributed the most damage to the original gameplay of PoE 1 (alongside other things ofc). The zoom would have been far less had there been only 1 portal, defenses would have mattered more (and gotten more attention from devs), more skills would have stood a chance in the grand scheme of "gameplay", etc.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

.

Even experienced players make mistakes. PoE is a complex game, and part of its appeal lies in the unpredictability of what can happen in a map run. When you take away that buffer of six portals and make it just one, you're taking away the room for error. In a game like PoE, where everything can spiral out of control very quickly—especially with high-tier content—losing that single portal can feel punishing. It's not about being "stupid" or "not learning"—it's about the unpredictability that comes with pushing your build and character to the limit. Sometimes, it's not about mistakes, but about the sheer chaos that can happen during tough encounters. One small misstep or an unforeseen mechanic can wipe you out. The stress from knowing you only have one shot to get it right can be overwhelming, and it changes the way players approach content.

Additionally, while the learning process in PoE is key to improving, the emotional aspect of having a limited number of retries shouldn't be underestimated. The six-portal system allowed for a more balanced approach to risk-taking without punishing players too heavily for a single failure. By limiting players to one portal, the game could shift from a space where you take calculated risks and push boundaries to a space where players feel forced to play ultra-cautiously. This might take away some of the excitement and freedom that many players love about PoE. It’s not about treating players as incompetent, but about giving them the room to experiment, fail, and try again without it feeling like the stakes are insurmountably high.

Ultimately, it's not about "stupidity" but about finding a balance between challenge and accessibility. PoE has always had a steep learning curve, and adding the element of 1-portal only increases the stress around every map run. It's important to consider that players enjoy a certain level of engagement where they can still feel like they have room to grow without the constant fear of one mistake costing them everything. The goal is to maintain that sense of excitement and achievement without crossing into frustration.

Edit:The real challenge of the game should come from the difficulty itself, not necessarily from an artificial increase in stakes like reducing portals to one. PoE is a game where the depth of your build and the strategy you employ should be what determines your success, not just how much you’re willing to risk per run. A single-portal system would force more cautious play, sure, but it could also make the game feel less about testing your limits and more about avoiding any risk at all.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

read it

Again....this entire post assumes that 1 map is the end-all, be-all. Players run 100s of maps, THOUSANDS of maps. Even 10s of thousands of maps.

Stressing out over ONE map is a personal problem, not a game problem.

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Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

Edit:The real challenge of the game should come from the difficulty itself, not necessarily from an artificial increase in stakes like reducing portals to one. PoE is a game where the depth of your build and the strategy you employ should be what determines your success, not just how much you’re willing to risk per run. A single-portal system would force more cautious play, sure, but it could also make the game feel less about testing your limits and more about avoiding any risk at all.

Lol....and what is 1 portal if not "the difficulty itself". You need to be ready. You need to be on. You need to have a functional build. THAT is literal game difficulty, nothing artificial about it.

And again....you are assuming players are idiots. People do not play games and just "play it safe" the entire time. Very few do that. Those are the HC crowd. Anyone in softcore is going to push beyond their means and die at some point.

And really....what does it matter to you if a player decides they want to camp at t1 maps? That's their choice. You can make a different one during YOUR gameplay.