XP penalty and likely 1 portal is NOT going anywhere

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maquino85#7657 wrote:

Your entire premise is false because not investing in any defense means you will never complete the maps anyways.

Many people that complain on forums about this don't even have capped elemental resistances. Even capped elemental resistance is not investment into defense, its baseline of any character from where actual investment into defense begins. Do you understand that?

if you fuckup your map by dying, you shouldn't be rewarded.

a game where fuckups aren't punished is not a game, it's a piece of timewaster where those with the most time on their hands always win even if they suck.

succeeding in game should require luck and skill, poe is already down on skill requirement so you can play it from a sofa with a joystick pressing some buttons and postiioning your char, how low can they go until my cat can play it by jumping on my keyboard?

Variety of build is the option to not go to the OP meta build and still be viable to run endgame content..

the 1 portal need to go out the window.. or if it is their vision to map as a "single use, all in, uber ticket", then ramp up instead of the sudden 180. (make the map give you 6-4-2-1 portals linked to being -5-10-15-16+ tier)


As it stands, the entire campaign (so far) is "darksouls", there are strong enemies, mini bosses and main bosses that will one-shot you, but also, their strong attacks are telegraphed.. and death resets the map. that teaches you death costs you (time, effort, loot and extras like essences), but also that death is part of the learning curve.

then you reach endgame and you find it requires a token (waystone) and it stacks more things up, the mods the waystone and node may have and the endgame-events.. what that implies to the player? that death is to be avoided and one must play as cautiously as if it was hardcore.. or copy one of the OP meta insta-clear build.


that, imo, leads to a divide, considering the many threads of discussion, into two groups, those that rush to endgame and linger there.. and those that enjoyed the game untill endgame and gets frustrated by the sudden change of pace and style.


so far, i would rather create a 4th or 5th character, as the fun of endgame (delirium, expeditions, rituals) are not worth it under the current overpunnishing state of the atlas.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

More fallacies.

-Death penalties only affect people that die too much (you)
-Death penalties are only annoying for people being annoyed by simple game designs that stop them from showing off a non-deserved progress they could have obtained bashing their head on a wall long enough (you again)
-Death penalties are only an issue for people thinking they are better than they really are while being all equally punished accordingly by a machine doing simple maths (you still)

-Death penalties aren't an issue for people enjoying playing a challenging game.
-Death penalties aren't an issue for people accepting their own mistakes and willing to improve themselves.
-Death penalties aren't an issue for people accepting reality ; accepting this game as it is, or moving on.

Aww, adorable, so much for ignoring me <3 I feel so loved

The reason 1 portal is probably not going anywhere for standard mapping is that they have the 'zone reroll' mechanic.

Think about what you have to do to 'complete' a map. So, if you have a map with 10 rare enemies, and you kill 8 of them, but the 9th one gets you... so, you come back in, right? Well, that map now has 6 rares, or 15. Who knows, because the ENTIRE MAP got rerolled and repopulated.

So, players could juice a map, get over 600%... go in, kill everything except one rare, die on purpose, come back in, kill everything except one rare, die, etc etc.

We're already getting more than 3 exalts in a fully juiced map most of the time. Imagine being able to do SIX maps with the same juiced map. They aren't going to go with that.

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dwqrf#0717 wrote:

More fallacies.


-Death penalties aren't an issue for people enjoying playing a challenging game.

This is game is not "Challenging" its just punishing. Dark souls 1-Elden ring are all FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR more challenging by at least 10X+, yet their punishment is almost nonexistent.

odd. very odd. almost like challenge =/= punishment, and punishment =/= fun.

there is a word for people who like to be punished, and i believe 99% of the people who like these mechanics fit squarely into that title.

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Shadoe Wrayth#8114 wrote:

The reason 1 portal is probably not going anywhere for standard mapping is that they have the 'zone reroll' mechanic.

Think about what you have to do to 'complete' a map. So, if you have a map with 10 rare enemies, and you kill 8 of them, but the 9th one gets you... so, you come back in, right? Well, that map now has 6 rares, or 15. Who knows, because the ENTIRE MAP got rerolled and repopulated.

So, players could juice a map, get over 600%... go in, kill everything except one rare, die on purpose, come back in, kill everything except one rare, die, etc etc.

We're already getting more than 3 exalts in a fully juiced map most of the time. Imagine being able to do SIX maps with the same juiced map. They aren't going to go with that.

Nobody is asking to Redo the map 6 times, dont be obtuse, they just want 6 attempts at the same map, you know the same way that when you relog the Map stays EXACTLY as it was when you logged off just 1 less portal.

just need to make death the same as logging out.

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PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

1. You have to understand that a lot of people that complain about deaths not even realize that normal resist cap is 75%, many run without having even that, its not defense, its baseline, bare minimum.
2. You not lose exp if there's no exp penalty, don't get this take.
3. One portals maps promote investment into defense, i invested into defense above bare minimum, dying in maps extremely rarely, no matter what you supposed to die at some point, no amount of investment should make you literally immortal. But if your entire tree is damage, prepare to die and not cry. Watching at monitor while playing is also big part of survivability in maps.
4. Rarity bad.
5. Range build - faster clear and more risk since mostly people not invest into defense, melee build or any build that invest more into defense - slower clear and less risk, simple as that. Removing 1 portal makes playing slower build with more defenses just pointless, when you can blast maps on most meta cancer build and probably never die 6 times in single map.

I sincerely doubt the vast majority of those complaining are doing so at less than adequate defenses, life, and EHP. I'm 3200 life, 73% armor (closer to 75 or 76% after max rage and taking recent damage), 78/76/78/44, and I've been one shot by white minions in non-damage boosted maps, lost 2500 Life in single swings from some 1% of rares with super boosted damage, will lose 600 life even from white mobs using basic attacks (again, non-damage boosted maps), and then randomly 95% of the time even rares will tickle me. Literally NOTHING about boosting defenses will protect me from random one-shot bullshit moments, unless GGG decides to make reaching 5k Life, 20k armor, and 85% resistances a cake walk to achieve for Red side. The game is grossly out of whack right now and the one-attempt maps (works the same in campaign, campaign maps reset, too) is just making it all so much worse.

Suggesting it promotes defenses is a poor argument when the path of least resistance is as compelling as it is. Screen nukers clear maps faster than my warrior and achieve better defenses and EHP with less investment while matching mine with little by comparison, all from the safety of from across the screen. One-attempt maps only make that path of least resistance even more desirable. Exp loss almost certainly would never go away, and it's still desirable to get those last 10-20 passive points, and not wiping the moment a breach opens or some other mech is initiated is an obvious desire. Wanting a punitive death to punish those who don't think or plan isn't worth the frustration of the multitude of others who do. We're softcore for a reason.

And I will once again reiterate the negative feedback loop that one or two deaths can trigger. People experience waystone droughts despite their best efforts. I'll run 4 T15 in a row and not get a single drop above T10. Imagine dying then, now you're stuck getting 1% exp a map for who knows how many until the drought ends. It is bad game design, flat out, there is nothing redeeming about it. I could also mention that the sheer frequency of bonus damage mods on maps make it even more frustrating, but that's less the one-attempt feature and more the game's garbage balance state.

"

Shadoe Wrayth#8114 wrote:

The reason 1 portal is probably not going anywhere for standard mapping is that they have the 'zone reroll' mechanic.

Think about what you have to do to 'complete' a map. So, if you have a map with 10 rare enemies, and you kill 8 of them, but the 9th one gets you... so, you come back in, right? Well, that map now has 6 rares, or 15. Who knows, because the ENTIRE MAP got rerolled and repopulated.

So, players could juice a map, get over 600%... go in, kill everything except one rare, die on purpose, come back in, kill everything except one rare, die, etc etc.

We're already getting more than 3 exalts in a fully juiced map most of the time. Imagine being able to do SIX maps with the same juiced map. They aren't going to go with that.

Precisely why that reset mechanic needs to be removed. I have no idea why they went in such a direction, seems like such an unnecessary and overly complicated way to prevent players from just smashing their faces against a wall hoping it crumbles and falls. They didn't change PoE1 to do the same thing, did they? All they gotta do is refresh mob health and be done with it. I'm concerned the reason they want to keep one-portal maps may be that the current system is just much too integrated to easily revert or change, but if they can do it for Pinnacle they can do it for waystone and campaign maps.

"

Karr285#4892 wrote:

odd. very odd. almost like challenge =/= punishment, and punishment =/= fun.

"

odd. very odd. almost like challenge =/= punishment, and punishment =/= fun.

Emphasis for truth. Punishing does not mean challenging. Punishments should be teachable moments. There's nothing teachable about randomly being one-shot by something after a dozen maps of the same effective difficulty level and tier.