XP penalty and likely 1 portal is NOT going anywhere

I don't care enough, one way or other on the subject. GGG will do whatever GGG wants. but your 6 points don't make sense.

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

1. Literally 0 reason investing into defense at all.

6. It once again remove any reason investing into defense above bare minimum.

These statements are inconsistent. 1 is "invest at all", 6 is "invest above bare minimum".
If you have to invest to be above the "bare minimum", then it can't be "at all".

Which rationale are you going with ?

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

2. It doesn't matter if you die or not, you still have more portals anyway.

The title is "XP penalty and likely 1 portal is NOT going anywhere".
If XP Penalty is removed, and 1 portal stays this statement is false as only 1 portal.
If XP Penalty stays, but 5 portals are added this statement is false as every death gives an XP penalty.
Only if both the XP Penalty is removed, and 5 portal are added then this statement partially correct on both counts. You can still run out of portals.

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

4. This encourage people play builds that clear screens with half of gear being rarity and 0 defenses.

People don't need to be encouraged to play builds that clear the fastest and with the best chance of loot/currency, XP loss & portal numbers are irrelevant to that.
The 2nd half of the sentance is false. Your now using builds with 0 defenses as a rationale. You can't technically have 0 defense as it is inherent on gear.

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

5. It just delete build diversity.

You cannot "Delete" build diversity.. If you delete build diversity, then there is only 1 playable build in the entire game.

"

Draednaut1971#5511 wrote:

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

1. Literally 0 reason investing into defense at all.

6. It once again remove any reason investing into defense above bare minimum.

These statements are inconsistent. 1 is "invest at all", 6 is "invest above bare minimum".
If you have to invest to be above the "bare minimum", then it can't be "at all".

Which rationale are you going with ?

this is simple, bare minimum is to survive at least one tap from white and blue mobs since yellow and unique need to die in one shot, this is the problem.

white hit 1k, blue 10k, yellow 100k, unique 1M, we cannot have enough defense, life, Es or anything for the yellow and unique but enough to counter 95% of the mobs the ones that can hit you because of their sheer quantity(white and blue) so what we do is play to survive these hits and any trap, random projectile or spell that we may receive while killing everything with 1 hit since the game clearly isn't made to work with a build that can tank yellow and unique monsters.

No one is wrong in this topic, because this topic isn't a false dilemma. Game design is a subjective concept, doesn't matter [Removed by Support] that it isn't. Ya'll are the ones hellbent in using sophisms and "my feels matter more than yours" to drag your point along.

Forcing people to slow the pace even more in an alredy grindy game isn't a challenge, that's just a game design made to waste more time.

Pretending that dying is a good teacher when one-shots, i'm sorry badly telegraphed one-shots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDOsnPQzSfA exist in any stage of the game is delirious.

Arguing these are good game designs is insane and i will not pretend that they're not.

"

Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

[...] Game design is a subjective concept [...]

[...] Arguing these are good game designs is insane and i will not pretend that they're not.

So... hu... Game designs are objectively subjectives ?

Or Game designs here aren't good, according your subjective objectivity ?

Please explain how they can be both. Are those some Shrödinger Game designs ?



Or maybe it's just that :

"

Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

No one is wrong in this topic

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

"

Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

[...] Game design is a subjective concept [...]

[...] Arguing these are good game designs is insane and i will not pretend that they're not.

So... hu... Game designs are objectively subjectives ?

Or Game designs here aren't good, according your subjective objectivity ?

Please explain how they can be both. Are those some Shrödinger Game designs ?



Or maybe it's just that :

"

Z3RoNightMare#7140 wrote:

No one is wrong in this topic

Was about to say this. Guy started strong and then did exactly what he was criticizing... lmao.

"

Draednaut1971#5511 wrote:

I don't care enough, one way or other on the subject. GGG will do whatever GGG wants. but your 6 points don't make sense.

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

1. Literally 0 reason investing into defense at all.

6. It once again remove any reason investing into defense above bare minimum.

These statements are inconsistent. 1 is "invest at all", 6 is "invest above bare minimum".
If you have to invest to be above the "bare minimum", then it can't be "at all".

Which rationale are you going with ?

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

2. It doesn't matter if you die or not, you still have more portals anyway.

The title is "XP penalty and likely 1 portal is NOT going anywhere".
If XP Penalty is removed, and 1 portal stays this statement is false as only 1 portal.
If XP Penalty stays, but 5 portals are added this statement is false as every death gives an XP penalty.
Only if both the XP Penalty is removed, and 5 portal are added then this statement partially correct on both counts. You can still run out of portals.

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

4. This encourage people play builds that clear screens with half of gear being rarity and 0 defenses.

People don't need to be encouraged to play builds that clear the fastest and with the best chance of loot/currency, XP loss & portal numbers are irrelevant to that.
The 2nd half of the sentance is false. Your now using builds with 0 defenses as a rationale. You can't technically have 0 defense as it is inherent on gear.

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

5. It just delete build diversity.

You cannot "Delete" build diversity.. If you delete build diversity, then there is only 1 playable build in the entire game.

"If you have to invest to be above the "bare minimum", then it can't be "at all"."

Don't have to take every single word literally. Actual investment into defense is anything above bare minimum. Bare minimum is capped elemental resists to 75%, technically it's investment in defense, but actually calling it investment into defense is weird.

"If XP Penalty is removed, and 1 portal stays this statement is false as only 1 portal.
If XP Penalty stays, but 5 portals are added this statement is false as every death gives an XP penalty.
Only if both the XP Penalty is removed, and 5 portal are added then this statement partially correct on both counts. You can still run out of portals."

What the point of saying all this? Want to pretend smart or something? Its like saying 2+1=3, but 2-1=1, and actually 2*1=2.

"People don't need to be encouraged to play builds that clear the fastest and with the best chance of loot/currency, XP loss & portal numbers are irrelevant to that.
The 2nd half of the sentance is false. Your now using builds with 0 defenses as a rationale. You can't technically have 0 defense as it is inherent on gear."

Builds that clear faster with item rarity everywhere do not invest into defense that much if at all. Having no xp penalty and 6 portals make those builds prefered choice as whole point of game is progression, most people will choose build that can do stuff faster and can drop more currency when there's no real downside. 6 Portals are enough to clear t15 maps with 0% resists on spell caster because spell casters can kill mobs in whole screen or even out of screen.

Again, you don't have to cl*wn around and take every word literally. Having 1 life is technically having defense, it doesn't mean that every character with 1 or more life is investing into defenses. Running around with 2k life, 75% ele resists and nothing else is not investing into defense, its just baseline of any character.

"You cannot "Delete" build diversity.. If you delete build diversity, then there is only 1 playable build in the entire game."

Once again, don't have to take every single word literally. When amount of builds played by majority of players goes from 5 to 1, it deletes build diversity. When more people play same build, it deletes build diversity.

Which is already happening with rarity FOMO, when same Spark Stormweaver being played by almost half of whole playerbase, because it's strong enough to clear screens while having little to no investment into defense and runs rarity on almost every piece of gear.

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

1. Literally 0 reason investing into defense at all.
2. It doesn't matter if you die or not, you still have more portals anyway.
3. This encourage more and more people play exactly same fastest builds.
4. This encourage people play builds that clear screens with half of gear being rarity and 0 defenses.
5. It just delete build diversity.
6. It once again remove any reason investing into defense above bare minimum.

1. People don't invest in defense if it doesn't make a difference, like it is right now where everything is able to kill you fast no matter your defenses, making defense less prioritized.
2. Just make the other portals work like campaign, you die you lose loot.
3. No, making the game punisher you for dying or making build mistakes(bricking) is what makes people build the same Fucking build every time, look hardcore, high penality(only 1 life) and more than 50% uses the SAME BUILD.
4. Having only one map makes everyone afraid of dying encouraging meta builds that clear all the screen instead of getting more defense.
5. Allowing player to die more without losing a lot makes then experiment more and use new builds, because if the build isn't so good or inconsistent it still will work on map, it only will take x amount of portals more than other builds.
6. People will always do the bare minimum on the defense side. Why? Because EVERYONE like BIG NUMBER GOES BOOM. Doesn't matter how much tries they have, you will never have player putting more defenses than necessary.

Resume: You only thought about 2 things that would happen, less build diversity and less defenses build, and on neither you put much thought on before posting, so stop crying and making excuses and go play minecraft, it is a better game for your intellectual age.

"

ReiCoringa96#2002 wrote:

1. People don't invest in defense if it doesn't make a difference, like it is right now where everything is able to kill you fast no matter your defenses, making defense less prioritized.
2. Just make the other portals work like campaign, you die you lose loot.
3. No, making the game punisher you for dying or making build mistakes(bricking) is what makes people build the same Fucking build every time, look hardcore, high penality(only 1 life) and more than 50% uses the SAME BUILD.
4. Having only one map makes everyone afraid of dying encouraging meta builds that clear all the screen instead of getting more defense.
5. Allowing player to die more without losing a lot makes then experiment more and use new builds, because if the build isn't so good or inconsistent it still will work on map, it only will take x amount of portals more than other builds.
6. People will always do the bare minimum on the defense side. Why? Because EVERYONE like BIG NUMBER GOES BOOM. Doesn't matter how much tries they have, you will never have player putting more defenses than necessary.

Resume: You only thought about 2 things that would happen, less build diversity and less defenses build, and on neither you put much thought on before posting, so stop crying and making excuses and go play minecraft, it is a better game for your intellectual age.

Nah, "people" don't always invest maximum as possible into offense. Not everyone play for big numbers. It's not because you do because some streamers does it that everybody think like you. I like playing a defensive character, be it a tank, a healer, a support, a summoner, a shielded wizard, a dodging monk, whatever. In every toon I invest at least 50% of my build and tree into defense, maybe more. Does it result into a slower farming ? Sure ! Is it fun ? For me yes. Do I complain about dying ? Strangely, no.

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

Imagine GGG remove xp penalty, and give us 6 portals, what would it mean?

1. Literally 0 reason investing into defense at all.
2. It doesn't matter if you die or not, you still have more portals anyway.
3. This encourage more and more people play exactly same fastest builds.
4. This encourage people play builds that clear screens with half of gear being rarity and 0 defenses.
5. It just delete build diversity.
6. It once again remove any reason investing into defense above bare minimum.

All this would make perfect sense.... if investing in defense was actually prioritized and viable right now.

It's not. It's LITERALLY the opposite BECAUSE of the 1-death-maps.

Because you get randomly 1-shot in this game no matter your defenses, the only viable alternative is: invest loads into having the biggest AoE and damage possibles. Clear mobs as far as you can as fast as you can. You can't die if things can't even attack you.

How I know this is true? That was my literal experience.

Upgrading my shitty campaign weapon to a mid/high DPS one and playing dedicated ranged made me go from "struggling in T5s" to "easy clearing juiced T14s/T15s".

By the way, I did try investing in HP and resistances. It made no difference when mobs were allowed to stay alive for more than 5 seconds.

But wait, don't trust only my experience: why are people not playing Armor? Why is hybrid EVA/ES monk so weak and people are moving to dedicated EVA+Acro or pure ES? Why are people playing 15k+ ES builds with all capped resists, MoM, and they still rely on minion/totem/ranged builds?

By the way, GGG already said themselves that what we have is what they intended: PoE 1 mapping. The only thing they changed in PoE 2 is that they removed piano-flasking, which ironically for your argument, was a layer of defense you'd invest in.

"

ReiCoringa96#2002 wrote:

"

PaintMaster#2396 wrote:

1. Literally 0 reason investing into defense at all.
2. It doesn't matter if you die or not, you still have more portals anyway.
3. This encourage more and more people play exactly same fastest builds.
4. This encourage people play builds that clear screens with half of gear being rarity and 0 defenses.
5. It just delete build diversity.
6. It once again remove any reason investing into defense above bare minimum.

1. People don't invest in defense if it doesn't make a difference, like it is right now where everything is able to kill you fast no matter your defenses, making defense less prioritized.
2. Just make the other portals work like campaign, you die you lose loot.
3. No, making the game punisher you for dying or making build mistakes(bricking) is what makes people build the same Fucking build every time, look hardcore, high penality(only 1 life) and more than 50% uses the SAME BUILD.
4. Having only one map makes everyone afraid of dying encouraging meta builds that clear all the screen instead of getting more defense.
5. Allowing player to die more without losing a lot makes then experiment more and use new builds, because if the build isn't so good or inconsistent it still will work on map, it only will take x amount of portals more than other builds.
6. People will always do the bare minimum on the defense side. Why? Because EVERYONE like BIG NUMBER GOES BOOM. Doesn't matter how much tries they have, you will never have player putting more defenses than necessary.

Resume: You only thought about 2 things that would happen, less build diversity and less defenses build, and on neither you put much thought on before posting, so stop crying and making excuses and go play minecraft, it is a better game for your intellectual age.

1. Lie, then noone would ever reach high levels in hardcore.
2. Decent option tbh.
3. I know that many people play invoker because its op, its not problem of death penalty or portal limit, its balance problem.
4. You die if you invest everything into offense. You not die if you invest something into defense while keeping clearing at about same level, its possible, just try it.
5. You have enough time to experiment in campaign, you can experiment in maps since map sustain is no issue if you don't play glasscannon.
6. If you like big dps numbers and don't want to invest into defense, don't blame game for your choice.