Why dedicate my time if I can lose all my XP with a death penalty?
" Didn't have fun: For some a big part of the fun is the progression, so yeah feeling like you were sent backwards kills a lot of the fun. Didn't progress in Skill: Maybe? Skill progression is not linear and you might have just discovered your gear is suddenly bad. Didn't progress in Knowledge: Again, maybe, maybe not. I know to watch out for on death mechanics, sometimes I make a mistake and walk or dodge into it. Mistakes happen and they aren't always learning experiences, especially when the game is repetitive like this. Didn't progress in Dropped Gear: Its POE, its super easy to go a couple of hours without seeing anything thats better than what you currently have equipped. Doesn't even take that much bad RNG. Dropped currency: See above. And even if the currencies you do want drop, they are only good for crafting and trading. Two other systems people don't exactly like but GGG seems to. Progress in his Atlas: Maybe but the atlas does not fulfill the same sense of progress because its infinite. If the campaign had XP loss, the Campaign map would cause of acts and eventual finish. Didn't limit-test their build: Again, maybe. Was that a careless mistake, or the game trying to tell me something? Is the death an issue of the build i am using? Is my issue that I my gear isn't good enough anymore? Is my gear and build fine, but I need to, as the kids say, git gud? Is everything fine and just made a careless mistake? XP loss disincentivizes experimentation, figuring out what you did wrong and figuring out where you need to improve. So yeah, it actually is really easy to feel like you wasted your time, especially if you have a limited amount of time to play in a night. And maybe it is silly to feel like you wasted time when you were having fun moments ago, but welcome to human psychology. You can't tell people not to feel that way, just doesn't work. To be very clear, I don't want the game to be ez, want a death penalty that makes my limited available time feel worth it and encourages me to experiment and challenge myself. Xp loss encourages me to play incredibly cautiously and be super over leveled which is a much worse experience. Switch it to XP debt and, personally atleast, a lot of this goes away. |
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" It's a video game. Its already not a flex. Not even mentioning the fact that even "Playing right" hitting 100 takes forever as is. It just kind of looks like you had a lot of free time on your hands. |
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" Do you think people are dying on T1 white maps and why would anyone grind T1 maps for 500 hours? Anyone can currently farm T1 white maps and not to die, but there is reason people arent doing it. I dont feel rewarded for hitting levels after 90lvl, instead Im relieved for a moment that I actually got the level but then after few maps and after gathering like 30% xp I start stressing to die again. Its arpg super-grindy game and I like to listen to music and chill and feel the progression every time I play the game. If I do this, I may not hear corpse explosions around me and then suddenly outside of screen I get instantly killed by corpse explosions. After this happens I feel greatly unsatisfied and when this happens enough times, it just encourages more to quit than continue. On top of that you lose the waystone, loot and map modifier. Its just too much. League competition to 100lvl shouldn't ever be that super important that it ruins the gameplay experience for majority of people. |
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" What other games do you enjoy my man? I play Rimworld for fun. That game has some amazing mods and is quite challenging, but in a fun and engaging way. It's pretty fair unless you crank the difficulty up too high. I also enjoy sitting back with ARK Survival Evolved. The base game is pretty good. But I've added some mods that make it a Horde survival game, where you build a base and need to defend against dozens of super strong dino's. It's hella fun. Gives you good reason to go out and find big strong dino's to tame, and to reinforce your base with gathered materials. " This is how it usually ends up for me. It's pretty easy to get up to about 85 without really worrying about the XP loss tooo much, but every level after that, I'm constantly stressing about potentially losing my XP. I avoid doing more difficult maps because of it, and grinding a low level map is just obnoxiously slow. So I usually end up quitting. I play for enjoyment, not to stress constantly about losing hours of progress. I love having a show on a second monitor while I blast enemies and loot stuff. I really like the experience of getting to ~85 or so, and then the mechanics I hate really start rearing their heads. The main one is just how much of the game is balanced around "The Economy". and the second one is how much the game pads your game time. In the form of mandatory crafting/trading to progress, bad loot drops. Content is frequently balanced around the top builds. Self-made builds tend to be unviable without tons of work. The amount of time spent looking at a trade website, or simply leveling. Even Co-op content suffers because of it, and I like playing with my friends. Last edited by Akedomo#3573 on Jan 7, 2025, 3:05:43 PM
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" This is the best feedback we've had so far about time spent vs XP penalty compared to other axis of progression, so thank you very much for that. Now let me ask you this : Why do you want do reach level 100 ? Do you think it's an imprtant progress step in this game ? Do you think it's always mandatory to reach for A game ? Are you sure it's mandatory for THIS game ? If it's about closure, couldn't you settle at any other level instead, by choice ? If it's a challenge, are you willing to keep trying ? And on a side note, how tanky/damage/balanced oriented is your build, overall ? |
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" Plenty? Elder Scrolls, Civ, Tetris Forever, Legend of Zelda, most things? I just don't think of them as accomplishments, especially when they require tons of time. See, it doesn't bother me that i have a lot of free time on my hands and I dedicate it towards gaming. I just also don't think it means anything else. |
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it's absolutely awful. a had a free time today so i decided to spend it farming some maps, started at lvl94 24% exp, about 50 maps later i'm at 7%. And only once i died taking more than i could bite. Every other time was due to random freezes, network lagg and extremely poorly designed maps, like ritual in crypt map in tiny corridor without any space for maneuver.
I guess that's how ggg rewards players spending time and money on their product. I also get a strong feeling the only good way to progress through the game is buying an insane build through rmt and destroying screen after screen running 30 maps an hour. |
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" I agree with you 100% about everything you said but i'd like to add some nuances. 1) it can be tricky to compare "successful" from our point of view and "successful" from tencent point of view. It's well know that companies like to make money but they also really like to make "more money than last year". This need for growth can become tricky over time, and if your revenue is stable, the way to ensure this growth is to cut cost and then a vicious cicle starts. Also, regarding this, promises and objectives could have been made between Tencent and GGG in terms of investment and revenue. 2) i think we still should keep "the business point of view". We are consumer as you said and we are GGG's client. As clients we are entitled to review the product and to requests for changes. In a business realtionship, you usually don't go snoop around other client's requests and tell them they're wrong. It is a star shaped model of relations, client talk to business, business talk back, and that's it. My point: with a system where you suggest a change and the whole community comes take a dump on your opinion is that it's counter productive as it drives you away from giving ideas by extension possible good ideas from sprouting. The next step of that is GGG not having to do better. Never challenged. Every request for change from community is pushed away by community. You're going to have PoE 2. And on release they're gonan release Torment. 4 months later, Legion, 4 months later, Incursions, etc , etc , etc You're gonna have a mirror of PoE 1 with minimal effort from GGG. That's why I advocate to stop thinking GGG is your big bro and think GGG as a business who owes you a better game even when it's great. |
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" It would be if the game was challenging and you had to earn your way there. In fact, that would be much more of a flex, IMHSHO at least. |
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" Not judging you at all. Was just interested in what you played. I don't view video games as an accomplishment either. It's entertainment, enjoyment, and usually a relaxing experience for me. Games that have too many mechanics, or too high of a difficulty, aren't usually on my radar. Unless of course, it's done well. Like Elden Ring/Dark Souls. I'm currently playing a decently modded morrowind game, been enjoying that over dying in PoE and losing XP. I've got a few hours each evening to play something. It's nice enjoying games that respect my time more. The over-all experience is just more enjoyable. I think a lot of people are at a point in their life, where being good at a video game is one of the few things they feel accomplished in. It's how I used to act with video games when I was younger, because I was really good with them. And I was at a point in my life where I didn't really have much else going on. Once I got more in my life to fill it up, I realized that keeping that mindset was unhealthy. I was constantly stressed and upset in video games. Rather than playing them for enjoyment. It really made things unenjoyable. I lost the spark. Last edited by Akedomo#3573 on Jan 7, 2025, 3:15:34 PM
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