Death Penalty System - EXP Loss in particular

"Wawawa my net-build doesn't work unless I'm level 100 as the guide said, so I NEED it, I DESERVE it"

If you hate PoE2 design so much just don't play it and go back to PoE1 where XP loss doesn't exist and every single character can reach level 100 blindfolded.

Ho wait...

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PoE2 design is great. Death has consequences. You don't like the consequences ? Here are some possible solutions for you (choose wisely) :

-Accept reality as it is and plan/play/feel accordingly.

-Don't die :
-Play tankier build
-Get tankier gear
-Play lower levels
-Git gud.

-Play another game less punitive, that would hurt your feelings less.

-Complain online that the game is bad and stealing your time while doing everything you can to change it into something it's not to feed your ego. (But keep playing it for some reasons (???) ; who is the masochist here ?).

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Avaricta#4758 wrote:

2) The player does not get the message and keeps dying repeatedly without improving his character or adapting the difficulty.
Here the XP penalty is needed in order to amplify the message the player is clearly not understanding. The message being: Improve your character or lower the difficulty.

Why is this message "needed"? What great harm is being caused by the player continuing to die repeatedly. Maybe they're having fun and want to overcome the challenge with the character they have?

OMG, we can't have that! Players playing the way they want, that would be madness!

"

Avaricta#4758 wrote:

Once again. I think you are just not understanding what type of game this is. Improving your build/character is the main activity. Everything evolves around this. Maps are here for farming. Not for challenges. A map is something you open to mindlessly farm currency/equipment for your build. If you want a challenge you attempt a pinnacle boss.

Absolutely nobody says: I want a challenge. Lets open a map.

If you die in 1 out of 4 maps, you most definitely are doing something wrong. I would expect to maybe die once in a 100 maps. Or maybe even less.

If you only die 1 in 100 maps then maps suck and need a serious overhaul. Maybe replace them with a giant pachinko machine that spits out rewards. That would at least be engaging.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

"Wawawa my net-build doesn't work unless I'm level 100 as the guide said, so I NEED it, I DESERVE it"

If you hate PoE2 design so much just don't play it and go back to PoE1 where XP loss doesn't exist and every single character can reach level 100 blindfolded.

Ho wait...

-

PoE2 design is great. Death has consequences. You don't like the consequences ? Here are some possible solutions for you (choose wisely) :

-Accept reality as it is and plan/play/feel accordingly.

-Don't die :
-Play tankier build
-Get tankier gear
-Play lower levels
-Git gud.

-Play another game less punitive, that would hurt your feelings less.

-Complain online that the game is bad and stealing your time while doing everything you can to change it into something it's not to feed your ego. (But keep playing it for some reasons (???) ; who is the masochist here ?).

Or maybe provide feedback on an early access game in the forums they have provided for it, so they can track player assessments of the game? That is also something a person could do? These are company provided forums.

Meanwhile, you dismiss all the feedbacks, opinions, and facts from people telling you that loss of map/loss of xp on death are core part of the game, both intentionnal and great game design creating both meaning and challenge for both regular mapping and higher bossing, and you guys keep plaguing the net and dooming the game's future because you are just upset to be punished away from the elite circle you WANT to belong to but you CAN'T access due to a lack of gear/skill/knowledge/patience.

It's not feedback, it's entitled whining. You just want the game to be made easier, because you can't hack it. You FEEL like you DESERVE to reach the end of the endgame. Well, that's not how it works. Clearing the campaign and reaching 70 is great enough, that's already the end of the game for most people whom had fun clearing it. You want more ? It exist, but good luck reaching it. You can't do it ? You know what they said : git gud.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Meanwhile, you dismiss all the feedbacks, opinions, and facts from people telling you that loss of map/loss of xp on death are core part of the game, both intentionnal and great game design creating both meaning and challenge for both regular mapping and higher bossing, and you guys keep plaguing the net and dooming the game's future because you are just upset to be punished away from the elite circle you WANT to belong to but you CAN'T access due to a lack of gear/skill/knowledge/patience.

It's not feedback, it's entitled whining. You just want the game to be made easier, because you can't hack it. You FEEL like you DESERVE to reach the end of the endgame. Well, that's not how it works. Clearing the campaign and reaching 70 is great enough, that's already the end of the game for most people whom had fun clearing it. You want more ? It exist, but good luck reaching it. You can't do it ? You know what they said : git gud.

I think you are doing a lot more entitled whining than anyone else here. OP was directing feedback at the devs, not you. Several responses with opinions supporting xp penalty are not facts, they are also feedback and opinions. Many responses are not in favor of it as well. If supporting opinions are not compelling enough to change someone's mind? Then yes, they are dismissed. That is how debate works.

Nah, because I accept reality and actually enjoy it. You don't.

Case dismissed.

Merry Christmas.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

You just want the game to be made easier, because you can't hack it.

Death penalties do not make a game harder. They only make it more tedious.

The challenge is what makes the game hard. Overcoming the challenge makes it fulfilling.

Punishment has nothing to do with that. In fact, it means they have to lower the challenge or the punishments would be too harsh and too frequent.

We want a challenging, difficult game. Not a punishing, time-wasting one.

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Nah, because I accept reality and actually enjoy it. You don't.

Case dismissed.

Merry Christmas.

uh huh

"

dwqrf#0717 wrote:

Meanwhile, you dismiss all the feedbacks, opinions, and facts from people telling you that loss of map/loss of xp on death are core part of the game, both intentionnal and great game design creating both meaning and challenge for both regular mapping and higher bossing, and you guys keep plaguing the net and dooming the game's future because you are just upset to be punished away from the elite circle you WANT to belong to but you CAN'T access due to a lack of gear/skill/knowledge/patience.

It's not feedback, it's entitled whining. You just want the game to be made easier, because you can't hack it. You FEEL like you DESERVE to reach the end of the endgame. Well, that's not how it works. Clearing the campaign and reaching 70 is great enough, that's already the end of the game for most people whom had fun clearing it. You want more ? It exist, but good luck reaching it. You can't do it ? You know what they said : git gud.

That's one of the points I said at the beginning :-D Just because you play a build that basically clears everything everywhere in every map doesn't make you the king.

For that matter I can copy an stupid no brainer build and do the same and reach lv 100 like friends did many times in PoE 1. In fact they got bored by such build so they often stopped between 92 and 99. ON the other hand they quit because it's virtually impossible to get creative with own ideas because your progress is stopped or at least heavily slowed due to the EXP penalty.

If you are such a player, I can totally understand the comment. People like you wouldn't feel a single negative thing by removing the EXP Penalty... You are just scared that your way to play is not the only valid anymore.

You either play totally outgeared in lower missions until you "farmed" your gear or you play builds that are mostly copied and not self engineered. It's fine... I have nothing against it while I don't like it. But posing in the forum as king and telling others to leave because they would like a single thing be changed, is just over the top arrogant.

By now I clear tier 7 maps with ease... Even rare enemies stacked with buffs are usually dying 1 hit with a Melee Boneshatter build.

I still can't run higher maps because the potential EXP loss doesn't allow me to take this challenge so I am stuck... what now? I just had level up... I can try it. And then? I beat it... I stick with Tier 7 and in 1 or 2 out of 10 maps I die for what ever reason. Cycle starts over again.

There is basically not a single downside for the game or the economy or any other aspect. You guys are defending it because you feel king because you reach something on one of two lame ways that can be done by anyone... but not everyone want's to stick with outgeared content or play meta builds. Can't you get it? You can keep playing the exact same way you are doing right now. Only difference is that other player can play differently. Some player like to do more than just walk, press button, all dead... continue... walk, press button, all dead... I play a melee build, I want a reason to carry the shield. I love the shield raise mechanic and the dodge roll. I want to use it and have fun with it.

Following what you say you are allowed to have "fun" - what ever this looks like for you. But others can't suggest things to have fun also... I am currently looking for a word for it but I better shut it at this point.

Not a single one here could deliver a solid reason that I couldn't counter.

Another reason for EXP Loss Removal would be party play...
- Can't get revived, can't use another portal to go back in

A friend started a map for the hideout and put in a freaking scary rare T8 map by accident and asked for help. So I joined and helped him knowing I would likely die but I wanted this hideout as well.

I did not die because of my skill, my knowledge, my patience... I died because the game is heavily overloaded with effects. As a melee I am in CCQ and he's playing a Minion Build. So he's not close to me and the minions doesn't block players. (players block players btw)

The reason I died were his stupid minions. About 20-25 Skeletons swarmed the huge freaking pack of monsters. While using the HP Bar on top on my head, I still couldn't see a thing. I couldn't see where to charge, where to jump, where to roll. I saw no ground effects, no explosions... nothing. I had like 0.5 seconds to think so I just reacted and tried to get out of the zerk of minions but died while hammering my instand potion. It was fine for me... I expected to die and was ready for it. Just not for such a stupid reason.

The game is not designed for it but people are forced into party play for more loot. So the game is punishing me 5 times. EXP Loss, Map loss, Atlas Mod lost, orbs for map crafting lost and last but not least the possibility to play with friends is lost from the start on out.

I would even be willing to meet you half way: EXP loss remains for boss maps for example. Something I can stack up and attempt one by one in a nice boss killing evening after a level up to lower the potential EXP loss.

I'd call this a compromise I don't like but boss these maps - because they are bosses, can be done on Magic maps without too much mods. Maybe even on 1 or 2 levels below the skill average.

But people wouldn't agree to this as well because your reason is not "good mechanic for myself" but rather "bad mechanic for others" so you can joke about them because they would play a different approach giving the chance.

Edit:
I forgot the most important stuff:

After level Up I could attempt every map in every difficulty as often as I have this map without a single EXP loss in the process... Depending I haven't finished one and die in the next.

So your beloved EXP loss system can already be circumvented and people can smash their heads against invisible walls of difficulty.

Following your chain of logic a Down-Level mechanic should be implemented to prevent them cheating and attempting maps they are not allowed too because they are not skilled enough to win.