Path of Pain – It May Be a Great Game, But Not for the aRPG Fanbase

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RKxZlcLUUF#5704 wrote:

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Akedomo#3573 wrote:

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RKxZlcLUUF#5704 wrote:

in fact you speak for a loud minority while others who enjoy the game don't spend time posting on repeat the same crap over and over.

ciao

If you regularly play POE 1. You are what's left of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of potential casual/average players that have tried it, and quit.

The fact that you don't realize you're the minority right now is amazing. Do you lack that much self awareness?

You could say 'PoE just isn't for you' Or realize. You have your game with crafting and mapping in it. And PoE 2 is a different game.

Telling people to go play Stardew instead of giving their criticisms about the game during an Early Access shows an incredible lack of insight, logical thinking, common sense, and reasoning skills.

Did you fry your brain grinding PoE for too long?

Reddit and twitter have convinced a whole generation that they are a consensus when that isn't the reality. May I suggest another game for you like world of warcraft? Maybe Pokemon is a good fit.

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Shadeless01#5109 wrote:

If you think PoE1 was not for casuals, you sure have no clue about PoE2 i played PoE1 casual and i can tell that PoE2 is not for casuals at current state of the game.

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

Yeah.
Horde of new players with no stick in the franchise at all watering down any meaningful discussion with "stop killing OUR game" and "get good".

Very frustrating.

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

I’ve been playing aRPGs (or hack-and-slash games, as we 40+ yo players used to call them) since their beginning. Titles like Diablo 1, 2, 3, Sacred, Torchlight 1 & 2, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, and PoE1. I’m no tourist in this genre. But PoE2? It’s just a chore.

I hoped PoE2 would be a better version of PoE1. Instead, it’s a completely different game for a completely different audience. That’s fine for diversity in the genre, but it’s not what I or most traditional aRPG fans are looking for. GGG made a big gamble, but I doubt it will pay off. As Kripparian said, “there is no chill in PoE2,” and chill is something the aRPG audience values.

Here are the main issues that make PoE2 frustrating for me:

-Skill cast times: Casting another skill even 0.01 seconds too early cancels the current one. It’s punishing and unfun.
-One-shots: They feel cheap and take away from the enjoyment.
-Unreadable maps: Everything blends together, maps are too large, and even the world map is messy compared to PoE1. Respawning monsters only make it worse.
-Illusion of build freedom: Most builds don’t work. If you’re not playing the meta, you’re going to have a bad time.
-Poor optimization: worse than PoE1, it still suffers from serious engine issues.
-Running a 10-act campaign every season in PoE1 was already repetitive, but it had its moments. I can’t imagine playing PoE2’s campaign over and over—it’s just exhausting.

This game clearly targets a new audience. To confirm my feelings, I reinstalled Last Epoch. It’s a relief: clear maps, smooth gameplay, and real build freedom. You can tweak your builds on the fly without grinding for hours to respec, items drop identified (becasuse why not?), sort button in large inventory. And this is just Last Epoch, which isn’t even my favorite aRPG (Grim Dawn holds that spot).

I’ll check back to see if they change direction, but it will probably take a few failed seasons for them to realize they designed the game for the wrong audience.

And yes, I know, git gud, skill issue, I get it. If I wanted a skill-based game, I’d play an arcade title. I don’t have the time to retry the same boss ten times or grind just to reach a map boss and get one-shot because I didn’t learn the mechanics beforehand or missed a single dodge.

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

Yeah.
Horde of new players with no stick in the franchise at all watering down any meaningful discussion with "stop killing OUR game" and "get good".

Very frustrating.

Or maybe they just don't share your opinion and don't want any big changes made to the game? It's absolutely legit to say, that the game is absolutely fair and all bosses doable and that players actually should git gud to better read boss patterns. Furthermore, some people don't mind dying 30 times to a boss. For them, it's a challenge they want to overcome and enjoy it, once they manage.

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

-Skill cast times: Casting another skill even 0.01 seconds too early cancels the current one. It’s punishing and unfun.
-One-shots: They feel cheap and take away from the enjoyment.
-Unreadable maps: Everything blends together, maps are too large, and even the world map is messy compared to PoE1. Respawning monsters only make it worse.
-Illusion of build freedom: Most builds don’t work. If you’re not playing the meta, you’re going to have a bad time.
-Poor optimization: worse than PoE1, it still suffers from serious engine issues.
-Running a 10-act campaign every season in PoE1 was already repetitive, but it had its moments. I can’t imagine playing PoE2’s campaign over and over—it’s just exhausting.

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I’ll check back to see if they change direction, but it will probably take a few failed seasons for them to realize they designed the game for the wrong audience.

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GregoryAdams#7051 wrote:

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

Yeah.
Horde of new players with no stick in the franchise at all watering down any meaningful discussion with "stop killing OUR game" and "get good".

Very frustrating.

Or maybe they just don't share your opinion and don't want any big changes made to the game? It's absolutely legit to say, that the game is absolutely fair and all bosses doable and that players actually should git gud to better read boss patterns. Furthermore, some people don't mind dying 30 times to a boss. For them, it's a challenge they want to overcome and enjoy it, once they manage.

It's tricky. The problem is that for the past few years, GGG has been selling supporter packs to PoE 1 players, with this whole "It's all thanks to you", "We couldn't have done it without you", and crucially "This game is for you".

So there is this feeling of player ownership, I guess, that GGG has cultivated, entirely on purpose, over the years.
Because the simple fact of the matter is that this kind of marketing is really effective.

The only problem is that as a byproduct, it also creates expectations that, when not met, cause the support and excitement to potentially instantly do a 180 into disappointment and anger. But that's a very well known component of this marketing strategy, and a kind of risk you just accept when you choose to go about it this way.

So I wouldn't defend GGG too much here. I'm sure they were well aware of all of this.

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AceNightfire#0980 wrote:

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eldheim#2436 wrote:

Yeah.
Horde of new players with no stick in the franchise at all watering down any meaningful discussion with "stop killing OUR game" and "get good".

Very frustrating.

Or maybe they just don't share your opinion and don't want any big changes made to the game? It's absolutely legit to say, that the game is absolutely fair and all bosses doable and that players actually should git gud to better read boss patterns. Furthermore, some people don't mind dying 30 times to a boss. For them, it's a challenge they want to overcome and enjoy it, once they manage.