Path of Pain – It May Be a Great Game, But Not for the aRPG Fanbase

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StrykerxS77x#8221 wrote:

I grew up on Diablo 1. I'm really enjoying this game.

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StrykerxS77x#8221 wrote:

I grew up on Diablo 1. I'm really enjoying this game.

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

I’ve been playing aRPGs (or hack-and-slash games, as we 40+ yo players used to call them) since their beginning. Titles like Diablo 1, 2, 3, Sacred, Torchlight 1 & 2, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, and PoE1. I’m no tourist in this genre. But PoE2? It’s just a chore.

I hoped PoE2 would be a better version of PoE1. Instead, it’s a completely different game for a completely different audience. That’s fine for diversity in the genre, but it’s not what I or most traditional aRPG fans are looking for. GGG made a big gamble, but I doubt it will pay off. As Kripparian said, “there is no chill in PoE2,” and chill is something the aRPG audience values.

Here are the main issues that make PoE2 frustrating for me:

-Skill cast times: Casting another skill even 0.01 seconds too early cancels the current one. It’s punishing and unfun.
-One-shots: They feel cheap and take away from the enjoyment.
-Unreadable maps: Everything blends together, maps are too large, and even the world map is messy compared to PoE1. Respawning monsters only make it worse.
-Illusion of build freedom: Most builds don’t work. If you’re not playing the meta, you’re going to have a bad time.
-Poor optimization: worse than PoE1, it still suffers from serious engine issues.
-Running a 10-act campaign every season in PoE1 was already repetitive, but it had its moments. I can’t imagine playing PoE2’s campaign over and over—it’s just exhausting.

This game clearly targets a new audience. To confirm my feelings, I reinstalled Last Epoch. It’s a relief: clear maps, smooth gameplay, and real build freedom. You can tweak your builds on the fly without grinding for hours to respec, items drop identified (becasuse why not?), sort button in large inventory. And this is just Last Epoch, which isn’t even my favorite aRPG (Grim Dawn holds that spot).

I’ll check back to see if they change direction, but it will probably take a few failed seasons for them to realize they designed the game for the wrong audience.

And yes, I know, git gud, skill issue, I get it. If I wanted a skill-based game, I’d play an arcade title. I don’t have the time to retry the same boss ten times or grind just to reach a map boss and get one-shot because I didn’t learn the mechanics beforehand or missed a single dodge.

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SilentTheGray#2578 wrote:

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

I’ve been playing aRPGs (or hack-and-slash games, as we 40+ yo players used to call them) since their beginning. Titles like Diablo 1, 2, 3, Sacred, Torchlight 1 & 2, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, and PoE1. I’m no tourist in this genre. But PoE2? It’s just a chore.

I hoped PoE2 would be a better version of PoE1. Instead, it’s a completely different game for a completely different audience. That’s fine for diversity in the genre, but it’s not what I or most traditional aRPG fans are looking for. GGG made a big gamble, but I doubt it will pay off. As Kripparian said, “there is no chill in PoE2,” and chill is something the aRPG audience values.

Here are the main issues that make PoE2 frustrating for me:

-Skill cast times: Casting another skill even 0.01 seconds too early cancels the current one. It’s punishing and unfun.
-One-shots: They feel cheap and take away from the enjoyment.
-Unreadable maps: Everything blends together, maps are too large, and even the world map is messy compared to PoE1. Respawning monsters only make it worse.
-Illusion of build freedom: Most builds don’t work. If you’re not playing the meta, you’re going to have a bad time.
-Poor optimization: worse than PoE1, it still suffers from serious engine issues.
-Running a 10-act campaign every season in PoE1 was already repetitive, but it had its moments. I can’t imagine playing PoE2’s campaign over and over—it’s just exhausting.

This game clearly targets a new audience. To confirm my feelings, I reinstalled Last Epoch. It’s a relief: clear maps, smooth gameplay, and real build freedom. You can tweak your builds on the fly without grinding for hours to respec, items drop identified (becasuse why not?), sort button in large inventory. And this is just Last Epoch, which isn’t even my favorite aRPG (Grim Dawn holds that spot).

I’ll check back to see if they change direction, but it will probably take a few failed seasons for them to realize they designed the game for the wrong audience.

And yes, I know, git gud, skill issue, I get it. If I wanted a skill-based game, I’d play an arcade title. I don’t have the time to retry the same boss ten times or grind just to reach a map boss and get one-shot because I didn’t learn the mechanics beforehand or missed a single dodge.

I feel EXACTLY the way you do and have had almost the same experiences game-wise with thousands of hours in PoE1. I just don't get it tbh, the development of PoE2 in it's current state is 10 levels of irony all in one. For a company that constantly claims to be driven by data, they clearly didn't fucking look at any of it.

Ruthless was the LEAST played game mode in PoE1, the smallest percentage of players of any game mode and it was already less than 1% at that time. GGG decided to make an entire game for those less than 1% of people, to me that's not just a gamble, it's both ignorant and stupid. They can keep chasing their fairytale, but they will inevitably fail as a studio considering PoE1 is already on life support.

Everyone keeps telling all the PoE1 players to go back to PoE1 if they don't like PoE2, we were told constantly by the devs that PoE2 would NOT affect the development of PoE1, it has already been affecting it, very negatively in fact, because our next league continues to be delayed further and further. So going back to PoE1 in the same fashion as it existed before is currently not possible even if we wanted to do so.

It seems like GGG has taken on way more than they can handle and is trying to do WAY too many NEW things. If they announced tomorrow they were reinventing the wheel itself, it would not surprise me.

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geramel#1814 wrote:

I doubt GGG cares or listens to this stuff. But until PoE2 GGG was my favorite gaming company because they listened to the fans. So far in PoE2 I don't feel like they care what we think. They're just caving in to the streamers and their love of Souls games. THIS IS AN ARPG NOT DARK SOULS 323. If I wanted to play that type of game I would, but I want to play an ARPG. The dodge roll is fine since I always had a movement skill equiped in 1 to use the same way. It needs to be slightly longer of a move though. The zoned respawning every time you die is just painfully stupid. If this is GGGs view of how they want the game then I'm done giving them my money. Not even in PoE1. and I've got 2000+ hours in PoE1 and I'll just stop playing.

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Bakubylozajete#1182 wrote:

Played ARPGs for many years and I had most fun with two titles:

Marvel Heroes - super easy, almost braindead on many parts of the content, walk through thousands of mobs and have fun with dozens of different heroes you can play. Awesome game [*] rip sweet prince.

Path of Exile 2 EA - deliberat and slower gameplay, where I have to play and pay attention from the start, gear up from the start etc. This is exactly what was promissed and what I wanted from the game (yes it have EA problems, and some things should be improved, as I would say with almost any, even full realeased product)

(Diablo 2 for nostalgia would be third, even though PoE1 was better and I played it since beta so I've seen it being slower)

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vonMistont#4223 wrote:

I’ve been playing aRPGs (or hack-and-slash games, as we 40+ yo players used to call them) since their beginning. Titles like Diablo 1, 2, 3, Sacred, Torchlight 1 & 2, Grim Dawn, Last Epoch, and PoE1. I’m no tourist in this genre. But PoE2? It’s just a chore.

I hoped PoE2 would be a better version of PoE1. Instead, it’s a completely different game for a completely different audience. That’s fine for diversity in the genre, but it’s not what I or most traditional aRPG fans are looking for. GGG made a big gamble, but I doubt it will pay off. As Kripparian said, “there is no chill in PoE2,” and chill is something the aRPG audience values.

Here are the main issues that make PoE2 frustrating for me:

-Skill cast times: Casting another skill even 0.01 seconds too early cancels the current one. It’s punishing and unfun.
-One-shots: They feel cheap and take away from the enjoyment.
-Unreadable maps: Everything blends together, maps are too large, and even the world map is messy compared to PoE1. Respawning monsters only make it worse.
-Illusion of build freedom: Most builds don’t work. If you’re not playing the meta, you’re going to have a bad time.
-Poor optimization: worse than PoE1, it still suffers from serious engine issues.
-Running a 10-act campaign every season in PoE1 was already repetitive, but it had its moments. I can’t imagine playing PoE2’s campaign over and over—it’s just exhausting.

This game clearly targets a new audience. To confirm my feelings, I reinstalled Last Epoch. It’s a relief: clear maps, smooth gameplay, and real build freedom. You can tweak your builds on the fly without grinding for hours to respec, items drop identified (becasuse why not?), sort button in large inventory. And this is just Last Epoch, which isn’t even my favorite aRPG (Grim Dawn holds that spot).

I’ll check back to see if they change direction, but it will probably take a few failed seasons for them to realize they designed the game for the wrong audience.

And yes, I know, git gud, skill issue, I get it. If I wanted a skill-based game, I’d play an arcade title. I don’t have the time to retry the same boss ten times or grind just to reach a map boss and get one-shot because I didn’t learn the mechanics beforehand or missed a single dodge.