End game combat feels too fast

+1 this blaster above all else game-play is bad and the entire game seems to choke players into it.

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

People always say PoE2 is slower paced, but that is not an intention, it is a result of making the combat GOOD. People don't realize PoE1 combat is bad.


I've put it in written format so it's easier for you to comprehend. Also it's just the piece of evidence I personally remember because Jonathan was very direct and clearly stated his vision.

I can comprehend it just fine, but this is in no way evidence of him saying that the PoE2 endgame was going to be slow and methodical, or evidence of them being unclear about the pacing of the endgame, which were my original questions.

Maybe you should first comprehend what I was saying before you straw-man your way to a bad clip proving absolutely nothing of what I was asking people to prove.

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Jonathan even said so himself, directly, that speed and "being able to kill larger crowds" is KEY for players to feel the character progression.

And Jonathan is confused and doesn't have a proper base understanding of how this works and that is why there are so many problems.

Slaughtering a horde of fodder enemies after becoming stronger is fun. Duh, but you can't base THE ENTIRE END GAME around this without amounting to anything more than an insanely over-complicated for entry, yet somehow simultaneously basic bitch piloted arcade mode that ruins everything that isn't blaster mashing.

Right now the game is balanced and designed where nothing else matters late game except getting more damage and wave-clear. All forms of nuanced content, progression and difficulty are most efficiently solved by blasting and the entire game is balanced to enforce this while leaving everything else in the dust.

EVERY. SINGLE. THING. BECOMES. POINTLESS. AND. DEAD. EXCEPT. FOR. BLASTING.

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hmcg020#6029 wrote:

I wholeheartedly disagree.

What gives PoE value for me, is our character's potential for exponential growth. Unlike Diablo2 or D2R, etc, you can go from merely surviving the campaign (Which I LOVED), to dropping the hardest bosses in a second. This can take a year's worth of investment, but it's possible and I love that.

I don't want to get to a point where I'm 35% stronger than someone else doing cow-level no matter what gear I have. I want to be able to clear players-6 cow level in 30 seconds, 1-tapping whole screens.

One-tapping bosses shouldn't be thing. The TTK (Time To Kill) for a boss should be 1min. Maybe 30sec if you're using exceptional gear. I was a little disappointed when both Jonathan & Mark hesitated to answer during the interview with DM and then Mark finally said 1-3min.

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

i don't have proof neither but i also was under impression the poe2 would be more 'tactical' and effectively slower. funny there was never a clear message of this kind, yet lots of people got this impression. maybe because they spent years perfecting attack animations that you can't even see in the end game? or how much effort they put into monster/boss design? it might be just that these thing were never explicitly stated but their efforts were implying it through the years.

I can understand why people got this impression, because most of the gameplay was of the earlier acts and they would never show a character with everything maxed out to showcase their game, because like I said earlier in the thread, that would be counterproductive if they want to show their different designs.

But they've always said you could definitely get more powerful in endgame and I don't quite understand why people would think otherwise. I mean, these are the same people that made PoE1. They designed Mageblood and Headhunter. They are the same people that made oldskool Vaal Fireball, Aura Stackers, Adorned, Cluster Jewels, etc.

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But they've always said you could definitely get more powerful in endgame and I don't quite understand why people would think otherwise. I mean, these are the same people that made PoE1. They designed Mageblood and Headhunter. They are the same people that made Vaal Fireball, Aura Stackers, Cluster Jewels, etc.

People don't expect all endgame power-spikes to be the same thing is the issue. Everything devolves into wave-clear + one-shot meta and all interactive game-play evaporates. PoE's "power fantasy" is a lie. It's either kill screen or lose to things designed to speed-bump the 1-shot screen play-style. It's simply bad design that is so unexpected compared to earlier interactive game-play and advertised game-play that everyone get whiplash and is turned away.

People thought they were getting a Diablo killer game, but all they got was a bait and switch, higher barrier of entry Diablo 4 in the end game.

I haven't read the entire thread nor have I reached maps yet, i'm fairly newb and I love playing the campaign, my highest level is 50 storm weaver sorc and other chars are below lvl 20 just to try them.

i'm noticing the higher level I get, the less skills I get to use because I don't have the time, if the mob touches my sorc she drops dead so I have to just spam spark or something and keep inching forward and dodge while spamming spark or something similar.

Is this how the game is gonna be later? I thought I could make a nice Stormweaver Quarterstaff build and play the game and use a bunch of skills to combo something great and blah blah.

My initial thought was a melee attack like ice strike, an aoe like firestorm, a dodge skill like that ice leap backwards, temple bell + lightning orb and some passive aura buffs etc.

But the higher level I get, the more I find myself just spamming that one button because of how hard/fast the mobs hit and my sorc dies. So the only logical way is to spam one button and dodge and dodge and dodge or do the 1/hp/mana shield trick thing which I can't do and I can't do the one-shot builds yet either, I barely have skill gems to upgrade to 3 sockets since im barely in act 1 cruel atm.

So is this game intended to be that one-tap playstyle zooming through everything just to get it done, or is it a game where the (i dont have a good word to describe it) but like Marvel Heroes for example, it was slower paced combat where the skills used and upgrades mattered more than the "oneshot button"

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IonSugeRau1#1069 wrote:

People always say PoE2 is slower paced, but that is not an intention, it is a result of making the combat GOOD. People don't realize PoE1 combat is bad.


I've put it in written format so it's easier for you to comprehend. Also it's just the piece of evidence I personally remember because Jonathan was very direct and clearly stated his vision.

I did the rest of your homework for you by the way and actually listened to what Jonathan had to say during the interview that you quoted from, and you will probably find the rest of what he said exactly after your quote (just to place it in its right context, without biases from content creators) quite fascinating:

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Jonathan wrote:

Like, if you're stutter stepping with a bow character, the amount of time you spend attacking, that is to say, the amount of attacks you do per second while stutter stepping, may be the same in Poe 2 as in Poe 1. The difference is in PoE 2 you have full uptime, because you're attacking while you're moving, while in PoE 1 you have to stop and start and stop and start, so you have to make the attack time faster in PoE 1 in order to feel like you're hitting stuff at the right tempo. But once you change like the moving while shooting thing to be able to happen, then suddenly that means like even though the attack time is technically slower you feel like the number of attacks you are doing is the same.

Quoted from this interview with Preach: https://youtu.be/aGE76Cv3dz8?si=zxXTZkVo-mjuRgqU&t=1354

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Phrazz#3529 wrote:

What a lot of people seem to ignore, is that GGG want us to FEEL the power and progression of your character.

What I feel as the game starting to treat me like an idiot as I'm progressing, simplifying what was interesting combat until it gets too dumb to play it anymore.

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AintCare#6513 wrote:

nah the first paragraph is almost a straw man because every single trailer for poe1 league was also 'slow' well at least it offered screen visibility. but people knew it was a showcase. my argument went lil more into why would they allocate so much resources in systems that would be completely negated during wast majority of gameplay. one can even say it was marketing but hiring martial artists and rigging in-game models with motion capture is a bit of an overshot on that aspect as well.

Are you saying that it wasn't clear that them showcasing their new game was a showcase? How does this even make any sense?

And why on earth would they not want their animations to look good? You still get to see them in the beginning of the game, right? And why do faster animations not have to look good? So what on earth does this have to do with the speed of the endgame? This is just pure fiction at this point.