Neither game is nearly fun enough to ignore all the feedback regarding unskippable campaigns.

"

Andromansis#4714 wrote:

Except I can look at your league challenges and see that you keep quitting leagues during the campaign, happened 7 out of the previous 10 for you if you even played them at all. So please don't try to tell me the campaign is always fun and engaging or worth trudging through every league.

You have a very poor way of drawing conclusions then.

Just because someone doesnt want to play the league doesnt mean they dont like the campaign.


These two things are not correlated in the slightest. I think I have my answer on the purpose of this thread of yours now.



Gl with whatever you choose to do. Make sure to remember taking a break for some music in wraeclast as it can be harsh.

These guys always cheer me up!

"

Phrazz#3529 wrote:

You want them to, which is fine. But from going from "want" to "need" is a rather large leap, at least when it's solely based on your subjective opinion.

In an entertainment product the gap between want and need is a bit more fluid than if we're talking survival situations. So if I'm discussing it in absolute economic and customer driven language, this is a sore spot that is causing me to make different decisions about my time and my money when it comes to the game and I certainly feel like it warrants addressing the underlying concern that the campaign is repetitive and getting more repetitive every passing year. They can punch it up, they can kick it down some stairs, the problem will become a sore spot for a lot of poe2 players if what they said on their stream is anywhere close to true which makes it a foreseeable problem.

Now I'm of the mind it should have been addressed years ago, but with the advent of gold in both games it seems a good opportunity to have some postgame unlocks that aid in saving time to get characters from the twilight strand to destroying kitava that aren't necessarily related to gear.

certain groups of people make real money having other people play games. so in games like poe, where endgame access for bots is crucial there will be no shortcut.
if they ever do allow it, the game will be even less attractive for real players.


it's really simple in life: what doesn't cost a thing isn't worth anything.
what can be accomplished in a whimp, isn't worth going for.

games should challenge you, not make it easier for you to master them.

My biggest problem with POE 2 right now is unironically the opposite. That we play thru all this new exciting content just to end up at a place where we run a bunch of rehashed POE 1 leagues.

They should honestly just have launched it completely vanilla and then only add 100% new stuff on top, and instead see those old leagues as a learning experience

The game is already a cesspit of RMT anyway, but if you're only ever doing things to spite the botters and the RMTers then you're not really leaving yourself much room to interface with legitimate customers. To rephrase your argument basically all you're saying is that only the bots really matter.

"

la_blue_girl#0819 wrote:

My biggest problem with POE 2 right now is unironically the opposite. That we play thru all this new exciting content just to end up at a place where we run a bunch of rehashed POE 1 leagues.

They should honestly just have launched it completely vanilla and then only add 100% new stuff on top, and instead see those old leagues as a learning experience

That combined with the fact they're saying its going to be about 25 hours per difficulty or 50 hours per character to get to end game is basically the genesis of this thread.

"

Andromansis#4714 wrote:

The game is already a cesspit of RMT anyway, but if you're only ever doing things to spite the botters and the RMTers then you're not really leaving yourself much room to interface with legitimate customers. To rephrase your argument basically all you're saying is that only the bots really matter.

i don't kill myself cause my life will end in around 20 years and there is no reason to throw the towel and thank everybody for the fish.

you have to be aware what's your priorities as a game dev and even if the situation is bad it's not worth to make it worse.

"

vio#1992 wrote:

"

Andromansis#4714 wrote:

The game is already a cesspit of RMT anyway, but if you're only ever doing things to spite the botters and the RMTers then you're not really leaving yourself much room to interface with legitimate customers. To rephrase your argument basically all you're saying is that only the bots really matter.

i don't kill myself cause my life will end in around 20 years and there is no reason to throw the towel and thank everybody for the fish.

you have to be aware what's your priorities as a game dev and even if the situation is bad it's not worth to make it worse.

They've proven they can just ban the RMTers and the botters time and time again. So either your assertion that their existence should trump any discussion about the game or its features is flawed or you're outright admitting you believe the botters and RMTers are more important than the legitimate customers. In any event, that is a distraction from this thread, you should make a new thread explaining how you feel about RMT and botters.

i do think that a game can die from bot infection cause people see no use in competing with bot groups.

and a strategy of banning bots is like installing antivirus on windows, it's symptom fighting with no real effect cause the antivirus software is making the systems even more vulnerable.

systems need to be designed to be safe, not made safe by permanently patching the basic design mistakes one made.

--

poe has been bot safe, then ggg decided that the console market is too big to be ignored and implemented all sorts of console stuff into poe (trigger gems, autotargeting skills, autopickup functionality) which opened up huge holes in their bot safe design.

---

while it's been fine and dandy when consoleros played in their own realm because consoles are controlled by their manufacturers and users only license them, ggg couldn't resist to unite the realms and introduce all the mechanics which bots need into the pc realm where bots do exist.

it's like joining a gasoline tank with a nice and cosy oven.

as a consequence we now get antivirus (ban waves) which are deadly for a free to play game cause who seriously freely supports a game with no advantage bought, when all that support can be taken away at any time with no chance to appeal?

--

the only way out of this is to "go mass market" instead of trying to keep a loyal and overspending smaller target group. with all the bad side effects like reddit hyperbolers and pitchforkers, hateful postings all around the internet and poe forums, devalueing the core groups' suppport with "sales" on prestigous mtx pissing off those who supported alot for those signs of support.

maybe there was no other way to keep the company alive when they still were independent, maybe the pressure to get the monthly money to pay ggg folks was too huge, i still think that some basic principles like bot safety by design never should have been given up.

Vio, I understand how you feel but I'm not going to validate it farther because of how tangential the issue is to this thread. But since, as you say, there are already "huge holes in the bot safe design" then its really moot to discuss it in relation to this issue and you should start your own thread about it since you've completely resolved its relation to the problem in this thread by admitting the problem is not directly related at all. You make some good points otherwise but I can't reckon with them, hopefully the risk/security team does a Q&A about that stuff soon so you can put your mind at ease but I doubt it.