We NEED more content like T17, it is time for T18

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BadAssTom wrote:

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When people talk about T17s as bridging content to ubers they mean T17s at a baseline. The baseline does not include any optional difficulty.

T16s are the bridging content to invitations and pinnacle bosses. Applying your logic and modding them to include 100% deli, wisped, titanic rogue exiles makes them more difficult than invitations and pinnacle bosses. Should T16s then be nerfed?

My build 150+ div trivializes ubers and T16 but T17 go into the sell tab because GGG is hostile to this playerbase and literally doesn't want us to play the game. Read the map mods, the bosses are garbage too.

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Scarletsword wrote:

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BadAssTom wrote:

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When people talk about T17s as bridging content to ubers they mean T17s at a baseline. The baseline does not include any optional difficulty.

T16s are the bridging content to invitations and pinnacle bosses. Applying your logic and modding them to include 100% deli, wisped, titanic rogue exiles makes them more difficult than invitations and pinnacle bosses. Should T16s then be nerfed?

When people talk about T17s as bridging content to ubers they definitely don't mean T17s as baseline. xD And when people running T17s they are not running them not juiced. Why would they do that? To lose currency on every map? As that is exactly what would happened.

When people are completing their atlas and unlocking its points they run not juiced maps as it does serves purpose. Nobody would run not juiced T17 for fragment as cost of map is higher than that one lousy fragment which they would get. If they can beat ubers and can't beat t17s they just buy fragments. And that is not some rare case as post above says. Ofc that person is not running baseline T17s as nobody else does. Maybe with exception of unlocking last map device slot.

And when people here are complaining about T17s being too easy they are just in most cases saying that they do not juice them enough on purpose or don't know how to juice them enough to be challenging for them. There are people ofc which can run through hardest T17s pretty easy. But there is not that many of them and I see none of those here debating about difficulty. At least based on those who do not have their profile set private so we can actually see what are those builds which makes any T17s easy. As incidentally most people complaining about difficulty have.

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BadAssTom wrote:

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Scarletsword wrote:

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BadAssTom wrote:

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When people talk about T17s as bridging content to ubers they mean T17s at a baseline. The baseline does not include any optional difficulty.

T16s are the bridging content to invitations and pinnacle bosses. Applying your logic and modding them to include 100% deli, wisped, titanic rogue exiles makes them more difficult than invitations and pinnacle bosses. Should T16s then be nerfed?

When people talk about T17s as bridging content to ubers they definitely don't mean T17s as baseline. xD And when people running T17s they are not running them not juiced. Why would they do that? To lose currency on every map? As that is exactly what would happened.

???

Baseline t17s are the bridge between ubers.

Juiced t17s is higher end aspirational content. Thats the freedom and choice of this game.

8 mod juiced t16s are higher than ubers.

You absolutely do not need to juice them to profit from them either. You could stick basic harvest or basic ritual off them and make a profit.


Why would people run them not juiced? Go count how many 1/50 complete t17 maps through the forums (people that just want the extra slot or used a carry or bisection scarab)

Look at people complaining about free map mods in them as well: Volatile cores (lol), drowning orbs (lol), petrification statues (lol).

So noone is talking about juiced t17s.

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Mashgesture wrote:

You absolutely do not need to juice them to profit from them either. You could stick basic harvest or basic ritual off them and make a profit.

I am getting strong impression that this could become extremely amusing and ridiculous debate. xD Technically baseline don't include atlas at all. Do you think people not feeling they are easy and on the contrary think they are difficult are talking about running them without single scarab and atlas point allocated? Are you talking about making profit from randomly spawned ritual or harvest? As if you allocate it on atlas that is already juicing, isn't it?

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Mashgesture wrote:

Why would people run them not juiced? Go count how many 1/50 complete t17 maps through the forums (people that just want the extra slot or used a carry or bisection scarab)

I said in my post that only reason why would anyone run them not juiced is to unlock slot on map device. Or someone actually could also do it just to complete challenge.

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Mashgesture wrote:

Look at people complaining about free map mods in them as well: Volatile cores (lol), drowning orbs (lol), petrification statues (lol).

So noone is talking about juiced t17s.

Yeah, ok? So people are complaining about mods. Does that mean that they were attempting to run not juiced T17? For profit? Hoping that ritual or sacred grove will spawn? On top of that one synth fragment so they can get 80 chaos worth loot on map which cost 1 div and become rich?

But it is actually great that we know for sure what people are talking about when they talk about T17s being too easy or too difficult. I feel much more knowledgable now knowing it too. Ok, so everyone is trying to run them not juiced and basing their opinion about difficulty on the impression from that. Got it. ;)

Definitely lots of guys here will confirm it, especially those complaining that they are too difficult and get too rippy if you throw titanic scarabs on them.

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BadAssTom wrote:

I am getting strong impression that this could become extremely amusing and ridiculous debate. xD Technically baseline don't include atlas at all. Do you think people not feeling they are easy and on the contrary think they are difficult are talking about running them without single scarab and atlas point allocated? Are you talking about making profit from randomly spawned ritual or harvest? As if you allocate it on atlas that is already juicing, isn't it?

You could literally force it through the map device and make profit. Obivously youd have at least SOMETHING on your atlas passive tree.

Noone is running a blank atlas on 17s. That is, in your words:

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BadAssTom wrote:

extremely amusing and ridiculous debate

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BadAssTom wrote:

Yeah, ok? So people are complaining about mods.

The fact that the people complaining t17s are ALSO complaining about FREE mods tells you they arent talking about juicing lol.



Uhh... not to nit pick but...

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BadAssTom wrote:

On top of that one synth fragment so they can get 80 chaos worth loot on map which cost 1 div and become rich?

Both these values are inflated... synth frags were... never 80c this league...

I think you mean a different fragment.

The only ones to really had any value during the league were both over a divine (maven/eater) with reality peaking 50c over a divine at the time.

And a t17 being a divine? No they were around 100-120.

New content doesn't need to be a continuation of T16->T17->t18 map tiers. It could be new, different content like what Delve aimed to accomplish (but actually enjoyable). Makes me think of games like MU online and the events that would happen randomly.

An issue is that the current system is a massively convoluted retelling of pandemonium event from D2. There're so many layers of keys and tiers of access that only got exacerbated with the introduction of T17 and the gating of ubers behind them.

Remember when you could smash out 28 maps and get an invitation? Now it's smash out 30 maps, to get maybe 10 T17s, to then get at most 4 invitations, so long as you spec into the right tree and use the right scarabs. All of which costs currency and restricts other league atlas content. Before it was just a free invitation every 28 maps no matter your tree or sextants, so you could play any league content... we all remember. We're certainly making more currency now though and so the collective wealth has certainly come up, which I appreciate.

Also, now non-uber bosses are just redundant content. How many guardian maps and non-uber fragments do we all have that we never touch?

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hmcg020 wrote:

New content doesn't need to be a continuation of T16->T17->t18 map tiers. It could be new, different content like what Delve aimed to accomplish (but actually enjoyable). Makes me think of games like MU online and the events that would happen randomly.

An issue is that the current system is a massively convoluted retelling of pandemonium event from D2. There're so many layers of keys and tiers of access that only got exacerbated with the introduction of T17 and the gating of ubers behind them.

Remember when you could smash out 28 maps and get an invitation? Now it's smash out 30 maps, to get maybe 10 T17s, to then get at most 4 invitations, so long as you spec into the right tree and use the right scarabs. All of which costs currency and restricts other league atlas content. Before it was just a free invitation every 28 maps no matter your tree or sextants, so you could play any league content... we all remember. We're certainly making more currency now though and so the collective wealth has certainly come up, which I appreciate.

Also, now non-uber bosses are just redundant content. How many guardian maps and non-uber fragments do we all have that we never touch?

Are you an SSF player? Because in trade league all of the steps are optional (buy your T17 maps or boss fragments), and all of the normal fragments you dont use are profit (someone is always running easier content)

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Idk if necessarily T18 is the answer (considering how bad the reception has been for T17) I personally love T17, it's fresh new content that's fun and rewarding. Yes some of the mods are an absolute moodkiller, that I fully agree with and I believe difficulty can be raised without throwing in annoying things (that don't even make the content harder) such as tentacle fields or the little silver orbs ugh. Few things annoy me as much as trying to pick up loot while being chased by random crap.

That said, what this game lacks imo is fresh content for players who've been playing for a long time. We need more endgame content as frankly T16 are starting to feel pretty stale, and T17, while fun, need to be bought via trade or farmed.

It can be T18 or something else, but pls give us something that can actually be sustained or bought off the AH.