We NEED more content like T17, it is time for T18

"

Lyutsifer665 wrote:

well in that case everything is optional isnt it? you dont need to complete maps and get the bonus..you dont need to do lab and get your points...game works without lab points.

Those are part of this games character growth and progression systems and you know it. T17 maps are not.

Could you kindly stop derailing this topic though? It's about the prospect of T18 maps serving as another potential source of optional endgame content. Not ssf, not loot, not labyrinth ascendancies.

we already have enough endgame content..but lets just say that they would do t18 maps, would you agree that the loot should be the same as in t17 but the difficulty harder just for the challenge and the gameplay? if you agree then i could support this idea

"

Lyutsifer665 wrote:

we already have enough endgame content..but lets just say that they would do t18 maps, would you agree that the loot should be the same as in t17 but the difficulty harder just for the challenge and the gameplay? if you agree then i could support this idea

GGG is never going to make harder content with no loot increase. That's not how games work

"

Toforto wrote:

It's quite literally unfair that the 0.000001% that can farm mirrors in t17s get to have loot explosions while the rest of the playerbase is stuck doing less rewarding things. This is why t17s suck lol

The majority of the playerbase hates t17s. It's really that simple. These maps are not a "bridge to ubers", they are harder than uber bosses and have overtuned enemies and overtuned rewards that only a select few builds can even get. That's just bad.

its a reasonable assumption that when people like us bring up the difficulty being an issue with the majority of the playerbase, as most players bases follow the pyramid structure where more players are at the bottom and better players are at the top, and at the topmost level would be the tip of the pyramid signifying the absolute minuscule number compared to the rest of the pyramid.

i can see both sides. the top players LOVE t17s as the rewards are real good. but as you say, requiring good builds funnels players to be hyper efficient in their builds. if you deviate you simply are not strong enough to enjoy the content. i dislike that.

"

Ulsarek wrote:

Those are part of this games character growth and progression systems and you know it. T17 maps are not.

Could you kindly stop derailing this topic though? It's about the prospect of T18 maps serving as another potential source of optional endgame content. Not ssf, not loot, not labyrinth ascendancies.

actually it is important to the topic. uber pinnacles exists as aspirational content. t17s are inaccessible for most of the playerbase. what would t18s be? more aspirational content?

if we keep raising the bar, one day weaker players will simply say "oh theres so much content i cant do in POE so i ll not play it".

t17s already put some FOMO into newer players by default. even for me i was affected back when i could only run t16s.

before t17s existed i was content with the idea that uber pinnacles were aspirational content. players wasnt expected to run them. i guess most players probably are fine with that too as most weaker players ignore uber pinnacles entirely.

t17s on the other hand is now expected. if the melee buff didnt happen, i think i would feel very comfortable quitting poe then and there. it doesnt help that the way t17s are implemented, it gates the map device slot. having an extra slot is HUGE. its so huge that i will say it goes beyond "optional" content. players would resort to carries to unlock it.

i will also bring up what i already mentioned. settlers seems to be heavily balanced around t17s where you get buttloads of gold if you run t17s.

its so great that i would say if youre a weak player that can barely handle t16s and run them magic with safely rolled mods, you might as well dont play settlers.

the amount of time required to farm gold to feed your ever increasing gold demand is really not enough. settlers on the surface level is very good for weak players but on the long run, youre either stuck with low level hires which give you shit and take a long time to farm anything substantial to balance your gold income or GIT GUD and be able to run t17s and juiced if possible. there is no in between.

i say this to illustrate how t17s as it currently is directly affects "weaker players". the amount of fomo and fun lost due to the game balanced around t17s is sickening. i already dont recommend POE to my casual gamer friends and this league cemented this decision.

in fact, as it currently is, i probably might quit poe once the league is over. (tbh i m tempted to just quickly finish all my shipments and quit early at this point lol).

if t18s are introduced as a harder version of t17s, GGG will cement the idea that if you dont play hyper efficient builds, you might as well not play.

i know theres the idea of "if youre not that strong then you can always play lower tiered stuff". to me, that was what t16s were. t16s are where "casuals" are expected to get. infact, t14s is the real place where casuals can "enjoy the end game".

i find it real interesting that many people have forgotten how GGG usually balanced new league mechanics around t14.

sanctum t14 could get you the best stuff. in beastiary you started to get the "boss" beasts at t14. there are other examples where t14s are where you could start unlocking "end game league stuff".

the bar was t14. with t17s existing, the bar has been raised to t17. GGG of course can do some course correction by rebalancing the next league back to t14s. IF they choose to do so.

but if t18s existed, players would feel that theres too many things simply beyond their reach.

of course theres the argument end tier content is a reward for being good at the game. thats a valid argument.

but on the flipside, its also a great way of making weaker players feel that this game simply is not made for them.

a lot of older players have already quit. my IRL friends some better than me, some being the first to clear elder/shaper all quit. to them the extra "aspirational" content is just to make players play longer but in a somewhat artificial way.

some of us play monster hunter. me personally i've played MH from PSP. back then the pinnacle of monsters were "G-Rank". but now in the newer MH's theres tempered/arch tempered/afflicted and other random BS monster alternate modes that exist that seek to provide more challenge to the player by buffing the damage/hp/aggressiveness etc.

we see it just as padding. its a ploy by the devs to entice us to keep playing longer than we normally would have in previous titles.

most of my friends stop after defeating g-rank. we might grind up a little bit more to complete our armorsets, but then we stop. we're done. that content is not for us and we're not interested. we go so far as to uninstall the game.

POE is currently geared heavily around being a temp league game. its practically the same game with just some new content. repetition.

for me or other random players to gear up to be able to clear t14s i guess can take some time but its not too unreasonable. heck even t16s are fine. but to get better gear to clear t17s? its a chore. i've never actually cleared t17s before this league. i've never gotten to lvl 99 before this league (on a temp league). i did all of that because i wanted to see how the melee buffs helped. and god damn it helped a huge bunch. but now that i've tried it. even without t18s existing. i simply feel that this game is not for me. i dont CARE for aspirational content. i dont care for "bridges". i just want to be strong enough to run the best "non aspirational" content.

that used to be t16s. now that t17s exist.....

i need to be stronger. the jump from t16 to t17 is HUGE.

its easy to say "well thats the reward for being stronger". its easy for me to say "i wont play the game coz its not for me" too.

and i m pretty sure ggg prefers more players wanting to play the game rather than leaving.

t18s legit can be good for the better players. heck, even weaker players actually benefit from t17s as they can just sell em off.

but as for me, i dont like the idea that i m just here to sell stuff to stronger players. i've already had the taste of how its like to be stronger. the stronger simply gets stronger as we siphon the hard work and effort of the weaker players.

its like how in diablo immortal, the free players only exist to allow the whales to wreck havoc in pvp. when players realize their place in the ecosystem. they might choose to no longer participate.

i've already disliked how many "optional" things in the game is not truly optional. i really cant speak for others, but me myself. even without t18s. i m done.

unless of course ggg introduces more player power. but as far as i know, a lot of the top percenters hate that idea as they dont like weaker players becoming stronger. if everyone is strong enough to farm t17s, whos gonna sell em t17s? everyone will be running em by default lol.

"

Lyutsifer665 wrote:

well in that case everything is optional isnt it? you dont need to complete maps and get the bonus..you dont need to do lab and get your points...game works without lab points.

You don't need to stoop to silliness. His point is completely valid because nobody is going to genuinely say "oh only do lab if you feel like it. You don't need ascendancies!". Uber Pinnacle bosses on the other hand...1.5% drop rate for something you're probably not going to use, gated behind a 5-10D fee just for the fragments? Now that's optional.

Just like people complaining about MF, people complain about T17. If they don't like it, or can't do it for whatever reason, they feel entitled to demand developers remove that content from a free game, denying other people the opportunity to enjoy it. It's ridiculous and a tragedy GGG bent the knee to the pitchfork-wielding, rabid-simpletons who demanded MF be removed for FOMO.

+1 for T18 and up. Make content so hard barely anyone can complete it. The people complaining now will then move to clearing T17s and start complaining about t18.

"

hmcg020 wrote:

You don't need to stoop to silliness. His point is completely valid because nobody is going to genuinely say "oh only do lab if you feel like it. You don't need ascendancies!". Uber Pinnacle bosses on the other hand...1.5% drop rate for something you're probably not going to use, gated behind a 5-10D fee just for the fragments? Now that's optional.

Just like people complaining about MF, people complain about T17. If they don't like it, or can't do it for whatever reason, they feel entitled to demand developers remove that content from a free game, denying other people the opportunity to enjoy it. It's ridiculous and a tragedy GGG bent the knee to the pitchfork-wielding, rabid-simpletons who demanded MF be removed for FOMO.

+1 for T18 and up. Make content so hard barely anyone can complete it. The people complaining now will then move to clearing T17s and start complaining about t18.

feedback forums are here to give feedback. people give feedback because they like the game. i find it distasteful to shit on people who are passionate enough to login this ancient forum to give their 2cents and have people like you calling them rabid simpletons. you can of course disagree and argue with them but name calling? thats low.

"

Ulsarek wrote:

Title. Despite the occasional nerf here and there the game still suffers greatly from nearly a decades worth of powercreep. Now with T17 maps being a bridge between high tier endgame and Uber bosses, it would only be logical to introduce T18 maps soon after. These T18 maps could be the Uber equivalent for mapping builds. Naturally, just like T17 maps currently, they'd be completely optional so as to not discourage more casual players with weaker builds that are still struggling with T16 and below.

Just like T17 maps are just slightly more rewarding than juiced T16 maps now, T18 maps should follow that curve and be slightly more rewarding than T17 maps. Naturally, the same restrictions that are present on T17 maps should apply to T18 to ensure these maps aren't run white or with few mods to diminish the challenge or purpose.

T18 maps being the equivalent to Uber Bosses could potentially contain currently, already existing entities, brought up to standard while applying existing T17 mods on top.

A few examples:
• instead of regular map bosses, known entities such as Omniphobia, Kosis, Beidat and Abaxoth buffed to Uber Boss levels of stats wait at the end of these maps
• regardless of mods, T18 maps could bring back randomly chosen Conqueror influenced packs of monsters. This includes Sirus packs.
• re-introduce original Archnemesis modifiers for rare packs of monsters, exclusively for T18
• re-introduce original Beyond, exclusively for T18
• re-introduce original mods such as Reflect on packs of rare monsters, encouraging a more strategic and situational approach while engaging enemies

As you can see there's a lot of design space to be had, be creative GGG!


Assuming the currency exchange goes core, it is evidently easier than ever to generate currency, even for casual players and those who don't play a lot, which results in the average player having much more potent builds at their disposal. With this, it is absolutely necessary to provide more content in line with the current highest tier of endgame to provide sufficient challenges and reasons to build strong characters without disrupting the already established endgame loop for those who are content with T16 and below.

Optional content like this can be very beneficial for the longevity and health of the game, as proven by the introduction of T17. It's time to expand upon that concept to keep PoE 1 fresh and engaging.


Your move, GGG.

Yes 100% agree we need more aspirational content. They could definitely expand on what they have. I dont know about 18's but theres plenty of room for other things. Maybe they could do something like what they did with this most recent gauntlet and adding those types of modifiers to bosses for specific rewards?

Plenty they can and have done to expand on difficulty and higher end game!

Good stuff👍

"

Mashgesture wrote:

"

Ulsarek wrote:

Title. Despite the occasional nerf here and there the game still suffers greatly from nearly a decades worth of powercreep. Now with T17 maps being a bridge between high tier endgame and Uber bosses, it would only be logical to introduce T18 maps soon after. These T18 maps could be the Uber equivalent for mapping builds. Naturally, just like T17 maps currently, they'd be completely optional so as to not discourage more casual players with weaker builds that are still struggling with T16 and below.

Just like T17 maps are just slightly more rewarding than juiced T16 maps now, T18 maps should follow that curve and be slightly more rewarding than T17 maps. Naturally, the same restrictions that are present on T17 maps should apply to T18 to ensure these maps aren't run white or with few mods to diminish the challenge or purpose.

T18 maps being the equivalent to Uber Bosses could potentially contain currently, already existing entities, brought up to standard while applying existing T17 mods on top.

A few examples:
• instead of regular map bosses, known entities such as Omniphobia, Kosis, Beidat and Abaxoth buffed to Uber Boss levels of stats wait at the end of these maps
• regardless of mods, T18 maps could bring back randomly chosen Conqueror influenced packs of monsters. This includes Sirus packs.
• re-introduce original Archnemesis modifiers for rare packs of monsters, exclusively for T18
• re-introduce original Beyond, exclusively for T18
• re-introduce original mods such as Reflect on packs of rare monsters, encouraging a more strategic and situational approach while engaging enemies

As you can see there's a lot of design space to be had, be creative GGG!


Assuming the currency exchange goes core, it is evidently easier than ever to generate currency, even for casual players and those who don't play a lot, which results in the average player having much more potent builds at their disposal. With this, it is absolutely necessary to provide more content in line with the current highest tier of endgame to provide sufficient challenges and reasons to build strong characters without disrupting the already established endgame loop for those who are content with T16 and below.

Optional content like this can be very beneficial for the longevity and health of the game, as proven by the introduction of T17. It's time to expand upon that concept to keep PoE 1 fresh and engaging.


Your move, GGG.

Yes 100% agree we need more aspirational content. They could definitely expand on what they have. I dont know about 18's but theres plenty of room for other things. Maybe they could do something like what they did with this most recent gauntlet and adding those types of modifiers to bosses for specific rewards?

Plenty they can and have done to expand on difficulty and higher end game!

Good stuff👍

As long as it doesn't disturb the game for everyone else, Literally its the defense for those who don't want the game to become too easy as well, This can't be a one-sided victory.

Clear definition of (aspirational) with rewards that aren't diluting the pool for those engaging in their own preferred mechanics (within reason) overlap is good up to the point it devalues running the primary mechanic to the point nobody will do it anymore is bad design.

I've been asking for this type of content for a long time to give higher skill players something to do that isn't just making money off the newbie-mechanics.

Mostly agree (except reflect packs).
Kalguur higher end shipment rewards should be nerfed and moved over to T18s.
T18s should be based on Uber versions of Kalguur bosses.

"

Ulsarek wrote:

Title. Despite the occasional nerf here and there the game still suffers greatly from nearly a decades worth of powercreep. Now with T17 maps being a bridge between high tier endgame and Uber bosses, it would only be logical to introduce T18 maps soon after.

It is pretty difficult to take these claims of game being too easy seriously as I think I am running pretty hard but not unusual t17s setup with around 5 mirrors worth build and don't feel like game is easy at all. Do you really think that uber bosses are hardest challenge in game?

Can you record showcase how easy it is to run for you this bridging content? Set up exactly as it says ofc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT3piG4ZXUM

I have no doubt that this will be helpful to many people who juice hard and maybe struggle. So thx in advance.