for GOD SAKE stop this discrimination PLS!

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Toforto wrote:

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Piousqd wrote:

400 divines is not "insane gear". That is a low budget for any end-game ready build.

400 divines is not "low budget" for any build whether its a leaguestarter or not lol
Low would be 20-30 divines max to get all your gear.
If you need to mindlessly grind such a ridiculous amount of currency for days playing 12 hours a day just to make a build that can comfortably do these maps that's just bad design. And it doesn't help that trickster is the most broken op ascendancy atm so people are all making the same builds that use the same gear/uniques so the prices are super high if you try to copy that build.

I said "end-game" build. You shouldnt expect to comfortably do t17's on 30d worth of gear. Not saying there arent builds that can do it, but its not reasonable to expect.

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Piousqd wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

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Piousqd wrote:

400 divines is not "insane gear". That is a low budget for any end-game ready build.

400 divines is not "low budget" for any build whether its a leaguestarter or not lol
Low would be 20-30 divines max to get all your gear.
If you need to mindlessly grind such a ridiculous amount of currency for days playing 12 hours a day just to make a build that can comfortably do these maps that's just bad design. And it doesn't help that trickster is the most broken op ascendancy atm so people are all making the same builds that use the same gear/uniques so the prices are super high if you try to copy that build.

I said "end-game" build. You shouldnt expect to comfortably do t17's on 30d worth of gear. Not saying there arent builds that can do it, but its not reasonable to expect.

interesting, some people here keep parroting how easy t17's are now and people were doing them on day 3-5 with 5 divines worth of gear

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

interesting, some people here keep parroting how easy t17's are now and people were doing them on day 3-5 with 5 divines worth of gear

Yes, with specialized builds like Hexblast mines which are specifically geared to do hard content on shoestring budgets.

https://poe.ninja/builds/settlers/character/stnikolauswagne/Settlers_Rangering?type=exp&i=0&search=name%3DSettlers_ranger&timemachine=day-5

This is what I did T17s with on Day 5, can probably get that stuff together for 5 div nowadays, but that was closer to 20-30 div early league and clears are neither smooth nor deathless.

Rule of thumb: Ppl who are doing endgame content in the first days of the league usually

1) Have mediocre but decently optimised gear
2) Are playing specific builds to overcome the fact that good gear isnt available yet
3) Have to use mechanical skill to overcome the fact that they cant overgear the content

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Piousqd wrote:

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Toforto wrote:

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Piousqd wrote:

400 divines is not "insane gear". That is a low budget for any end-game ready build.

400 divines is not "low budget" for any build whether its a leaguestarter or not lol
Low would be 20-30 divines max to get all your gear.
If you need to mindlessly grind such a ridiculous amount of currency for days playing 12 hours a day just to make a build that can comfortably do these maps that's just bad design. And it doesn't help that trickster is the most broken op ascendancy atm so people are all making the same builds that use the same gear/uniques so the prices are super high if you try to copy that build.

I said "end-game" build. You shouldnt expect to comfortably do t17's on 30d worth of gear. Not saying there arent builds that can do it, but its not reasonable to expect.

Did them on way less. Even linked all the crap I used and it turned out to be like sub 12D when I did 40/40. Lyu was even in that thread, so they know better.

For ES/Heavy Strike and retal

But skill/knowledge plays into that most def.

30D I dont know if thats universal or not. Price really doesnt mean much as seen by a few posters here throwing hundreds of divs into their builds and still struggling.

30D would clear some T17s as practically anything on SC IMO if you know how to not get rogered on the price of some specific items.

Are you gonna do the worst ones? Probably not, many builds struggle with those regardless without major crutches like MB or Nimis bs but the easy to middle modified tier you'd be fine with 30 divs.

I really feel like sometimes players forget that the last percent of power costs the same as like the first 95% (on regular builds this actually gets worse if you are doing mirror tier shit)

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stnikolauswagne wrote:

Rule of thumb: Ppl who are doing endgame content in the first days of the league usually

1) Have mediocre but decently optimised gear
2) Are playing specific builds to overcome the fact that good gear isnt available yet
3) Have to use mechanical skill to overcome the fact that they cant overgear the content

This is a great summary of what it takes to do them early but is this thread really even about that? League starts in general are extremely stacked towards overperformers - if this is your goal though this checklist may as well be the three hoops you should get ready to jump through to do content early.

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Lyutsifer665 wrote:

interesting, some people here keep parroting how easy t17's are now and people were doing them on day 3-5 with 5 divines worth of gear

They are too easy now, in fact I made a suggestion on that topic earlier in the month.

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3579333

My comment above was specifically directed at Toforto[Removed by Support]

T17's are too easy in the sense that they are meant to be the pinnacle of end-game mapping. Yes, GGG has said they are the "bridge to ubers", but that doesnt mean they still arent also the hardest maps (there is no T18).And yet, this league, they are, as you mentioned, easily accessible to many very early in the league.

This doesnt mean they dont still have higher gear/skill requirements than T16. People who are dying in T16 8-mods, or who can't be bothered to figure out what mods they need to roll off the maps, jump into T17 and die, or cant kill the bosses.

Mid-league, 30d is like new character starting budget.
10 gear slots (~20d)
5 flask slots (~2d)
3-8 Jewels/Cluster Jewels on average (~8d)
Are there builds or people skilled enough, to do a t17 with that? sure. Should the average build/player expect to have great success in t17's with that, no. Even more so when you take into account that a large number of the people experiencing problems are attempting to emulate a streamers juiced farming strat

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Piousqd wrote:

Even more so when you take into account that a large number of the people experiencing problems are attempting to emulate a streamers juiced farming strat

This was very obvious last league with back to basics. Players did not understand how much danger it adds and this league still has all the map mod effect nodes on the atlas tree. Sure, it's more loot but only if you can actually clear. I remember that thread where someone suggested to just spec shrines, Niko and Huck instead and were met with lots of bad players saying something along the lines of "that's mandatory now?!" which is even worse of a statement.

Also, we've learned from multiple threads this league players do not comprehend map mods at all either.

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Scarletsword wrote:

This was very obvious last league with back to basics. Players did not understand how much danger it adds and this league still has all the map mod effect nodes on the atlas tree. Sure, it's more loot but only if you can actually clear. I remember that thread where someone suggested to just spec shrines, Niko and Huck instead and were met with lots of bad players saying something along the lines of "that's mandatory now?!" which is even worse of a statement.

Also, we've learned from multiple threads this league players do not comprehend map mods at all either.

Whats funny is when I did the 250 challenges I completely forgot about huck,eihnar, and the sulphite nodes.

So yea its kind of silly how easy they are now

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Scarletsword wrote:

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Piousqd wrote:

Even more so when you take into account that a large number of the people experiencing problems are attempting to emulate a streamers juiced farming strat

This was very obvious last league with back to basics. Players did not understand how much danger it adds and this league still has all the map mod effect nodes on the atlas tree. Sure, it's more loot but only if you can actually clear. I remember that thread where someone suggested to just spec shrines, Niko and Huck instead and were met with lots of bad players saying something along the lines of "that's mandatory now?!" which is even worse of a statement.

Also, we've learned from multiple threads this league players do not comprehend map mods at all either.

Well shrines do feel mandatory, just from a point efficiency to added loot/mob value perspective.

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Scarletsword wrote:

this league still has all the map mod effect nodes on the atlas tree. Sure, it's more loot but only if you can actually clear.

That's a good point. I'm guilty of ignoring the added difficulty of those as well, auto including them in every atlas tree I make as soon as I have a completed atlas.

Good reminder that they are definitely not mandatory and you can make plenty of currency without them. Though I think I would just run a stricter regex for T17 rolls before dropping them to make it easier.