I think the developers don’t read the chat, but... (First Impression)

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ColdSpirit0 wrote:

It’s not a matter of the build; I just don’t have enough DPS. Yes, I defeated the Pinnacle Maven, but I can’t kill Kosis because I simply don’t have enough DPS. So, no matter what build I create, if it has low DPS, it won’t work.

But this is where the build DOES matter. Certain builds have much higher damage scaling, and much EASIER damage scaling.

RF builds trade off damage for survivability, even if you were to pick up the absolute best gear. BUT if you work with a completely different build, you might be far less tanky without significant investment, but your single target damage would just naturally be WAY higher at a similar point.

Ex: RF at the upper upper end usually boasts maybe 7-10 million dps. With significant investment into damage.
A skill like cobra lash? (chosen completely at random), can reach 30/40/50+ million damage at a similar "gearing" situation. Except that it is paper thin comparatively.

And then we can get into the Simulacrum-specific issues: were you running a wave where the monsters were resistant to fire damage? Because that can all but shut off your entire damage output. Kosis is not the same every time you encounter him, unlike Maven or any Pinnacle boss. He gets modified by the simulacrum mods, which can be rather challenging.

Upper end RF excels at MOST of the things the game throws at you....but it will fall short in specific scenarios of a build thats centered around dps, and will fall even shorter against a boss-killing specific build.

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mefistozxz wrote:

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Pizzarugi wrote:

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I honestly can't fathom how you can think like that and be playing this game and likely others.

There is nothing I can't do based on my chosen class in Diablo 2. Nothing stops me from doing everything with any build I like in Grim Dawn. Last Epoch can be completed in everything with every build. Not even Wolcen forces you into running multiple builds. I can name you a bunch of other games outside the genre that doesn't force you into specific builds to run specific content.

And you expect me to believe that PoE should, for some odd reason, stand out as the one game that forces you to play specific builds to enjoy specific content?

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mefistozxz wrote:

But this is where the build DOES matter. Certain builds have much higher damage scaling, and much EASIER damage scaling.

So all that diversity in the classes, skill gems, and the passive tree makes no sense if people are forced to play not what they want, but "meta" builds that have high DPS. I like RF, and I would like to continue playing it, albeit slowly, but still making progress. But you are telling me that I need to play an effective build with Cobra Lash, which I don’t want to. I'm just not attracted to that skill, and I don’t want to waste my time leveling it to 90. I’d rather spend my time on other games than play builds that don’t appeal to me, just to see what’s being guarded by the broken mini-boss Kosis.

^no....that's not what I am saying. And you can very much continue to play and improve RF!

Cobra Lash is not even remotely meta, i just used it as an example. ONE example...out of probably a solid 100 or more options that you could choose that might offer better "bossing" than RF.


RF does not excel at simulacrums. That is all I was saying. Any 1 skill should never be expected to excel at everything. Especially in an arpg that doesn't really encourage nor does it want to encourage you to keep playing a single skill for years at a time.

If you were to choose "Heavy Strike"....you shouldn't be expecting that skill to clear entire screens of mobs the same as a specific AoE skill would. That's arpg 101.

This is a very simple issue: You didn't do/have enough damage.

So you need to ask yourself; should every build, with every skill be able to beat Kosis no matter their gear? The answer is of course "no". You just happen to be under the threshold for what's needed for that exact fight, with those exact (random) mods you happen to get on that wave. Simulacrums are crowded gear checks, not content requiring skills - which is OK in this genre.

A (sadly) dead woman once said; "If first you don't succeed, pick yourself up and try again" after you've farmed a little bit, played a little bit and improved your character. Improving your character to beat harder and harder content is what ARPGs are all about. Can't let yourself be disheartened by one fail.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

There is nothing I can't do based on my chosen class in Diablo 2. Nothing stops me from doing everything with any build I like in Grim Dawn. Last Epoch can be completed in everything with every build. Not even Wolcen forces you into running multiple builds. I can name you a bunch of other games outside the genre that doesn't force you into specific builds to run specific content.

And you expect me to believe that PoE should, for some odd reason, stand out as the one game that forces you to play specific builds to enjoy specific content?

You are living in a dream world....oh my god. D2 was notorious for gating content behind builds. Uber Tristram without a smiter? But then a smiter in any other content? Act 5 with a lightning sorceress? Run into 1 lightning immune and you are done. Every class had a fairly specific "farming" location BECAUSE the game was so restrictive against certain builds in certain areas.

Last Epoch....same thing. The investment, speed, reliability, mods, and bosses rely heavily on your choice of build.

I'm done with this. I don't even think you realize what you are saying. It is so so so wrong and just plain crazy.



In PoE, *ANY build can conquer ANY content. But they do not do so equally, they should never be expected to do so equally, and doing certain content with certain builds will just be downright painful. But every skill CAN do everything. Even basic attack. We've seen amazing things from amazing players throughout the years. That isn't remotely the point, and its not even the point YOU were arguing earlier.

You want an Action Role Playing Game where your choice of skill and choice of build has NO impact on what or how you can accomplish things in the game? Make it yourself....because it most certainly does not exist in this Earth. Builds and skills HAVE to have strengths and weaknesses. It is quite literally what offers the different gameplay options you want.

Either that, or all content in the game would have to be so monotonous and similar that different styles wouldn't even matter.

Take something as basic as melee vs. non-melee: IMMEDIATELY there is an inbound inequality to how you engage with content. Without taking anything else into account, the sheer fact that one requires you to be closer makes the entire game different and unequal. Now take elemental damage vs. physical: are we just supposed to have all monsters have all equal defenses to everything and absolutely zero themes or specialties? What the hell kind of game is that?

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ColdSpirit0 wrote:

Yes, I defeated the Pinnacle Maven, but I can’t kill Kosis

Full Simulacrum is more difficult to beat than the Pinnacle bosses though. There used to be many builds that struggle with Simulacrum. (Not that I am defending Kosis design here. Just pointing this "difficulty ranking order" out.)

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ColdSpirit0 wrote:

Building characters with millions of DPS just to farm bosses isn’t what attracts me to games.

"Millions of DPS" are baseline for most SC/trade builds in current PoE. The game design kind of expects you to have them. There is also other content (Breachstones at least, also have random mods now) with minimum DPS requirement.

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ColdSpirit0 wrote:

I’m more interested in the game’s mechanics, and I’m fine with progressing slowly and seeing all the boss’s phases and attacks before defeating them – that’s what I enjoy.

Nothing stops you from improving your build to get (alot) more DPS though.

the issue of "some builds clear content better than other builds" is build diversity.

poe has a huge lot of build diversity but the more content that cant be done feasibly by most builds, then the build diversity is a lie.

back 8-9 years ago players were judging builds based on viability. isit shaper viable? isit X viable?

every new mechanic/boss is a new viability check. and every viability check kills off an entire branch of viable diversity.

you can argue that poe has tons of build diversity and i would agree but with a huge caveat being, its an illusion as build diversity with bad viability is mechanically a non functioning build.

me myself, i love doing stupid ass shit where i can push my build to clear 99.5% of poe content but i need to manage my expectations so i m fine with that.

tho i am quite against any mindset of "not all builds can do all content".

if a content is hard because you're using a certain build, ok thats kinda acceptable. you struggle but you can pull through.

however if you're telling me a build is so bad that you're forced to "change your build" to do content is acceptable. i kinda find thats a line that i wont cross.

a very good example is hotgm. they have masters that have CI which renders builds that focus on chaos damage essentially useless.

some smart forummers will say, ah just slap explosive arrows or use some searing fire and you can easily clear the content without changing your build "much".

but to me that simply is bad game design. hogm was a cash grab and for trolls to pay to troll other players, so i ll give it a pass.

as for the rest of the game? i ll just be lazy and say that the game simply isnt balanced. theres a lot GGG has to change to make the game balanced, but i doubt that would happen for some time. if ever at all.

Im with Pizzarugi when its about every skill being able to do all content. This should be the goal. Otherwise its just inconsistent nonsense when you do things fine and then suddenly, arbitrarily, dont. All because that specific content was designed for other kind of build? That creates frustration and is counterintuitive.
All content should be clearable with all skills and then some skills should excel in some content while others excel in other content, that would be balance. And the difference between a build that is good vs specific content and a build that isnt should not be as crazy as one barely making it while other barely noticing it.
Whatever we have now is so far from balance its honestly laughable.

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Pizzarugi wrote:

If you have to run another build you don't like to run content you do, that's not encouragement. It's forced on you. Your perspective on this is so off.

People wouldn't be glomming onto certain builds that excel at everything, if every build could excel at everything. Nobody likes being told you're not able to enjoy something if your build isn't capable of handling it, so it's no wonder people will run builds that can do everything.

You know what also doesn't help encourage people to play more builds? Cost. If it costs hundreds of divines to make a build strong enough to tackle everything, why would anyone want to repeat that process multiple times across different builds?

If you rebalanced the game to enforce builds only being good for certain niches, I promise you that you'll piss off a lot more players than please them.

If every build could tackle everything, and they don't cost you a ton of currency to get up and running each time, people would be more inclined to explore and try more builds. I, personally, would do that. As much as I love summoner builds, I would also like to experiment with other playstyles. The biggest reason I don't has a lot to do with both the cost of running a non-summoner build and the fact that I know whatever playstyle I try isn't going to let me engage in content I previously could.

No one "forces you" to play a specific build, Jesus Christ. Like with your other claim how only Trickster is viable for T17 maps. Simply not true, and not backed by evidence.

Right now I do T17 maps on a character that has 1.6k health lmao. It's only when you want to shut off your brain entirely while playing that you need crazy amounts of defences to be able to facetank everything. Those builds are possible too to provide the experience each and everyone of us wants.

The game isn't "balanced" to enforce certain builds to only be good for certain content either. It is just natural that certain builds will excell at different types of content. E.g. totem builds will naturally be better at running Sanctum and Blight, super high DPS builds will be great for bossing and invitations, fast builds with great clearspeed will finish maps faster etc.

Those things don't happen because a dev forces you into a chair and to make a certain build. You choose what content you want to run and make a build that is in line with that.

It's only in Path of Exile where the game gives you so many choices that players go and claim they somehow have less choices. Absolutely crazy

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Bosscannon wrote:

Im with Pizzarugi when its about every skill being able to do all content. This should be the goal. Otherwise its just inconsistent nonsense when you do things fine and then suddenly, arbitrarily, dont. All because that specific content was designed for other kind of build? That creates frustration and is counterintuitive.
All content should be clearable with all skills and then some skills should excel in some content while others excel in other content, that would be balance.
Whatever we have now is so far from balance its honestly laughable.

You have it backwards! The content isn't designed for specific builds. The content is made, and people figure out what builds run them best. Because if players are good at one thing, it's optimizing everything (and making the game boring for themselves)

Sad.