Game is turning into a glass cannon only builds

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Echothesis wrote:

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Game is turning into a glass cannon only builds

Turning?:) It is for glass cannons for as long as I've been here. Cannot think of a single content type where oneshotting it would be less efficient than being immortal with low dps tradeoff. You won't get more loot for tanking extra 100 boss attacks, but will for running several more bosses or maps in the same timeframe with your mad clearspeed.

If we are assuming infinite budget then you are correct, oneshotting bosses is always the best way to deal with them. But when it comes to ubers and the 200-300 mio dps needed to oneshot them then just going for a balanced build that can take a few hits and has decent DPS aka 20-50 mio is way easier on the budget and you still have decent kill speed.

I'll never understand why people always act like you have to choose between tanky with zdps and glass cannon with zhp. There is a lot of room in between those 2 extremes and as so often in life, the middleground is the best option.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

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Echothesis wrote:

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Game is turning into a glass cannon only builds

Turning?:) It is for glass cannons for as long as I've been here. Cannot think of a single content type where oneshotting it would be less efficient than being immortal with low dps tradeoff. You won't get more loot for tanking extra 100 boss attacks, but will for running several more bosses or maps in the same timeframe with your mad clearspeed.

If we are assuming infinite budget then you are correct, oneshotting bosses is always the best way to deal with them. But when it comes to ubers and the 200-300 mio dps needed to oneshot them then just going for a balanced build that can take a few hits and has decent DPS aka 20-50 mio is way easier on the budget and you still have decent kill speed.

I'll never understand why people always act like you have to choose between tanky with zdps and glass cannon with zhp. There is a lot of room in between those 2 extremes and as so often in life, the middleground is the best option.

Correct, thank you for clarification. I just don't know actual price of different 200M dps builds, because not reading poe science journals daily.

Point was, if you have a choice, dps brings better loot. Tanking is needed only if you cannot get trough piece of content at all, like with T17 maps. Excessive tanking like trolling maven memory games is for geeks only, and doesn't have practical purpose.

Solution: make pinnacle bosses track their signature attacks against all players in arena, and if player dodges it, tanks it, or uses mechanics like standing behind the pillars with the black star, add say 2% boss loot IIQ for that player per avoided attack (to a cap of course). Combined with overall limited time of boss fights due to ground degen buildup, this will incentivize players to develop personal skill, not just dps.

But of course that would first require moving away from archaic shared loot generation, which can be abused in dozen ways, to personal loot generation, as was suggested before in different threads.

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Echothesis wrote:

Solution: make pinnacle bosses track their signature attacks against all players in arena, and if player dodges it, tanks it, or uses mechanics like standing behind the pillars with the black star, add say 2% boss loot IIQ for that player per avoided attack (to a cap of course). Combined with overall limited time of boss fights due to ground degen buildup, this will incentivize players to develop personal skill, not just dps.

No thanks. There is absolutely no need for such abstruse solutions. Players are already incentivized to develope personal skill, it is just less apparent in Softcore.

As can be seen here, there are players that tackle content with the assumption of wrong fundamentals and no amount of dps, weird "solutions to encourage dodging" et cetera will fix that.


Pictured: A player trying to tank something their character isn't built for, est. 2024

They'd need a clean slate to allow for better design space when it comes to bosses and meaningful encounters and we are getting exactly that with PoE 2.

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Ulsarek wrote:

No thanks. There is absolutely no need for such abstruse solutions. Players are already incentivized to develope personal skill, it is just less apparent in Softcore.

As can be seen here, there are players that tackle content with the assumption of wrong fundamentals and no amount of dps, weird "solutions to encourage dodging" et cetera will fix that.


Pictured: A player trying to tank something their character isn't built for, est. 2024

They'd need a clean slate to allow for better design space when it comes to bosses and meaningful encounters and we are getting exactly that with PoE 2.

Damn look at that physical one shot

Sigh, of course you cannot write of anything else beyond who has bigger ...

Since it needs to be said, above solution suggestion is specific to poe. Other (balanced) arpg has no need of it, because it has no such wild build disparity and no rampant boss oneshotting. Which leads to boss loot spam conveyor by few players, then to loot being rebalanced around this conveyor, leaving normal players in the dust as usual.

In poe, merely being able to defeat pinnacle boss gives nothing. Defeat it 50 times (even if you get sick by how silly it feels), maybe you actually get that sweet T0 unique. Which related to topic of this thread: players who choose to build tanky, and don't yet have money to get both tanky and "okay" dps, should be rewarded too, with solutions like above. Because they cannot run content with such speed as the dps-focused builds of the same investment level.

no, people just don't understand how defensive layers work. it's a tragedy that only 0.5% of the players use aspect of the crab when it's the best reservation skill in the game when paired with block or evasion, or both

even a golem stacker elementalist can have like 80% RAW physical damage reduction and be immortal with good dps, but how popular is that build? yeah.

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gabpla111 wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

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gabpla111 wrote:

Sadly, there are very few skills in the game that allow you to scale damage efficiently and still be able to invest heavily into hit/degen mitigation.

Wrong cause you can get good damage and a resilient character with every skill.
But most players invest only into damage and get all surprised to get their cheeks slapped by every small hit.

Cool, so can you POB me a poison cyclone occultist or a storm brand assasin with min 5mill uber dps and minimum 50k max ele hit / at least 20 max phys hit without guard skills on?

"this every skill excuse is the most ridiculous thing" anybody can write. You literally can't claim bigger bs than this. No offense:)

5 mil uber dps and 50k/20k max hits are super easy to build lol, there are already tons of builds like that on poe.ninja

this is my build and I'm not even tanky, steelskin is disabled

https://pobb.in/ub1K2xHhX7gW

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Echothesis wrote:

Since it needs to be said, above solution suggestion is specific to poe. Other (balanced) arpg has no need of it, because it has no such wild build disparity and no rampant boss oneshotting.

So... in what "(balanced)" arpg you can't get oneshoted without defenses? Because even in most casual friendly D4 you can.

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Nomancs wrote:

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Echothesis wrote:

Since it needs to be said, above solution suggestion is specific to poe. Other (balanced) arpg has no need of it, because it has no such wild build disparity and no rampant boss oneshotting.

So... in what "(balanced)" arpg you can't get oneshoted without defenses? Because even in most casual friendly D4 you can.

Lol I was talking about players oneshotting bosses, not vice versa:) Try to imagine alternate interpretation at least, before launching into most pleasant road.

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Echothesis wrote:

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Nomancs wrote:

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Echothesis wrote:

Since it needs to be said, above solution suggestion is specific to poe. Other (balanced) arpg has no need of it, because it has no such wild build disparity and no rampant boss oneshotting.

So... in what "(balanced)" arpg you can't get oneshoted without defenses? Because even in most casual friendly D4 you can.

Lol I was talking about players oneshotting bosses, not vice versa:) Try to imagine alternate interpretation at least, before launching into most pleasant road.

Well, name them :D Because bosses can be oneshotted in D4, TI, GD and few others, so this might be very interesting ;)

EDIT: it would be nice if you would show us how you oneshot t17 bosses too, for comparison ofc.

Sure, bosses who don't have unique rewards unobtainable elsewhere, can be defeated very quickly in endgame. Play nitpicking with someone else.