T17 once again are ruining this league can GGG just discard t17 concept?

For me the problem doesn't come from the loot or rhe relative difficulty compared to T16 maps. It comes from the fun aspect of the map. Imo they have to remove environmental hazards from the map. They make running the map tedious and unfun. Having the whole map full of fire pools, sirus storms that prevent any kind of healing no matter the source while inside, being raandomly attacked by sawblades, etc ruins the experience.

People historically dislike the ascendancy lab for a reason. And that reason is that the traps make running them tedious in non-regen builds. But we cope with it because it's something you do only one time per character. In the case of T17, not being able to dash through the map because it is full of deadly pools of stuff feels terrible. Just make monsters stronger without actually breaking the whole build for a character and it'll be fixed.

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Or uber Lycia who happily sits inside her aoe hazards, so melee players cannot even approach her, and keeps shooting wide hitscan beams from there?

Weird I was able to do her. On a slow attacking slam build nonetheless.

What you don't enjoy spending 30 chaos to even attempt a map?!

Wow who could have guessed. Not GGG

And before someone reply its not about if it cost a lot or not. Its about the fact having to do it to even attempt it suck ass.

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Mashgesture wrote:

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Or uber Lycia who happily sits inside her aoe hazards, so melee players cannot even approach her, and keeps shooting wide hitscan beams from there?

Weird I was able to do her. On a slow attacking slam build nonetheless.

Okay. Thread is about concept, not possibility. If players can break through this, doesn't mean it is balanced. Specifically, bosses who sit in ground degens render melee leech useless, so if your recovery was built around it, you are screwed. If you are regen tank, or can absorb 90+% physical damage, you are fine.

In more responsible times, you could control where ground degens land, such as shaper or maven. Those T17 bosses are made without choreography in mind, they are amalgamation of different old mechanics with random layers on top.

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Echothesis wrote:

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Mashgesture wrote:

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Or uber Lycia who happily sits inside her aoe hazards, so melee players cannot even approach her, and keeps shooting wide hitscan beams from there?

Weird I was able to do her. On a slow attacking slam build nonetheless.

Okay. Thread is about concept, not possibility. If players can break through this, doesn't mean it is balanced. Specifically, bosses who sit in ground degens render melee leech useless, so if your recovery was built around it, you are screwed. If you are regen tank, or can absorb 90+% physical damage, you are fine.

In more responsible times, you could control where ground degens land, such as shaper or maven. Those T17 bosses are made without choreography in mind, they are amalgamation of different old mechanics with random layers on top.

UUE also completed... degen everywhere not just from the spheres that follow you around but also the squid casters.... still got through it.

Also did Usirus as well, the pinacle of degen and melee maneuvering.... So the whole sitting in ground degen... trouble leech excuse seems to be a player issue, and not a game issue.

Cant even regen if you are standing in those desolations... and the only regen I had was a handy little life flask and enduring for all this.

Really screams player issue to me here. And I have... lets see 6 warcries I manually cast, leap slam, frost blink for danger... and my main skill.


If you want to glass cannon, not have any regen, rely 100% on your leech.... like the argument you are framing....

But then not glass cannon enough to ... waste 6 portals as well?

Is 100% a player issue.

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Mashgesture wrote:

UUE also completed... degen everywhere not just from the spheres that follow you around but also the squid casters.... still got through it.

Also did Usirus as well, the pinacle of degen and melee maneuvering.... So the whole sitting in ground degen... trouble leech excuse seems to be a player issue, and not a game issue.

Cant even regen if you are standing in those desolations... and the only regen I had was a handy little life flask and enduring for all this.

Really screams player issue to me here. And I have... lets see 6 warcries I manually cast, leap slam, frost blink for danger... and my main skill.


If you want to glass cannon, not have any regen, rely 100% on your leech.... like the argument you are framing....

But then not glass cannon enough to ... waste 6 portals as well?

Is 100% a player issue.

Since you insist on personal example, looked at your Chieftain, yes, if you did all bosses with that, you are much better player than me. Even considering your comfortable phys mitigation.

And it still doesn't mean T17, the new mainstream content, which now has a bulk of the loot, should be balanced around the very best players, and have map device slot gated behind it in this state.

Best of luck to GGG increasing their sales with this approach, hope you guys can keep paying them:)

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Echothesis wrote:

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Mashgesture wrote:

UUE also completed... degen everywhere not just from the spheres that follow you around but also the squid casters.... still got through it.

Also did Usirus as well, the pinacle of degen and melee maneuvering.... So the whole sitting in ground degen... trouble leech excuse seems to be a player issue, and not a game issue.

Cant even regen if you are standing in those desolations... and the only regen I had was a handy little life flask and enduring for all this.

Really screams player issue to me here. And I have... lets see 6 warcries I manually cast, leap slam, frost blink for danger... and my main skill.


If you want to glass cannon, not have any regen, rely 100% on your leech.... like the argument you are framing....

But then not glass cannon enough to ... waste 6 portals as well?

Is 100% a player issue.

Since you insist on personal example, looked at your Chieftain, yes, if you did all bosses with that, you are much better player than me. Even considering your comfortable phys mitigation.

And it still doesn't mean T17, the new mainstream content, which now has a bulk of the loot, should be balanced around the very best players, and have map device slot gated behind it in this state.

Best of luck to GGG increasing their sales with this approach, hope you guys can keep paying them:)

yea I mean the games gotta evolve. Along with that, loot and mechanics.

Cant just stay back at Baran and the other idiots forever, in the -chaos res days and no armor, have to move on.

Funny enough back then, this same silly argument came up about people who were delirium farming, getting more loot than anyone else. Seems like we just repeat the FOMO.

For degen though,

Random degen is pretty common in this game. Both UUE and USirus you dont have control where they teleport, and 10/10 times they teleport on or even IN their own degens and you have to react and position accordingly.

Obviously when you get to the $$$ gear you dont worry about this... my character has a 5 div axe and a .... couple clusters around another 6-7? So it took no investment to get to this level at all, should be pretty promising for players trying to get into the game, especially melee after this patch.

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Echothesis wrote:

I fix some of my characters after every patch, to at least test the game before posting feedback, so unfortunately familiar with "shocking concept" of "something new". If only this new was balanced, instead of shifting weight from one gimmick to the next.

You clearly did not really tried to fix any of your characters giving the claims that t17 maps are only viable for meta builds and that all the changes are so unfair and unbalanced or other parroted yada yada complains picked up from others.

There's no actual defensive layers on your build, negative chaos resistance along with so many more obvious problems.
I'm genuinely not surprised at all that you're so frustrated with t17 maps and degen grounds while your at fault for running your build.
But I guess it's easier to blame the game for your mistakes instead of fixing obvious issues yourself.

t17 was mistake

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Pashid wrote:

But I guess it's easier to blame the game for your mistakes instead of fixing obvious issues yourself.

The amount of times where this is the case has increased by so much during the last 3-ish leagues. The other thing that seems to happen a lot more is that people trust reddit threads no matter how dumb they are completely blind.

It's bad.