T17 once again are ruining this league can GGG just discard t17 concept?

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Echothesis wrote:

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Kioskara wrote:

Having to spend hundreds of chaos rerolling these maps because they have a million binary "Your build now doesn't work" mods or "These mods juice the bosses so hard they're basically impossible unless you oneshot them" is so annoying. It ruined the last league for me, and it's currently ruining this league as well.

This sums up my attitude to T17 best. Resented them since first release because you cannot do them without modifiers. GGG broke their own core design, which allowed weaker/not-using-new-meta-from-current-patch builds to tune maps to their characters. As it is, they need another "16.5" map tier to "serve as bridge between T16 and T17":)

Yes, chaos sink is needed (against smarter players not falling for crafting casino:)), but rerolling "you die" mods on T17 is the most frustrating and abusive way to make a sink.

Best solution, just don't play a bad build or lack the gear forcing you to reroll often to hit something easy enough to run.
It's not hard in temp leagues and a hard reset each league, even less hard in standard with all the powerful legacy items and more power creep all over them place. lol

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Echothesis wrote:

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Kioskara wrote:

Having to spend hundreds of chaos rerolling these maps because they have a million binary "Your build now doesn't work" mods or "These mods juice the bosses so hard they're basically impossible unless you oneshot them" is so annoying. It ruined the last league for me, and it's currently ruining this league as well.

This sums up my attitude to T17 best. Resented them since first release because you cannot do them without modifiers. GGG broke their own core design, which allowed weaker/not-using-new-meta-from-current-patch builds to tune maps to their characters. As it is, they need another "16.5" map tier to "serve as bridge between T16 and T17":)

Yes, chaos sink is needed (against smarter players not falling for crafting casino:)), but rerolling "you die" mods on T17 is the most frustrating and abusive way to make a sink.

I sometimes use as many chaos orbs on T16s as I use on T17s. On one I fish for a high IIQ combination of mods, on the other I fish for mods I can run comfortably. Even there, certain mods are in the 'neutral' category such as less action speed per skill used recently on my bleed slammer.

And I still oversustain chaos orbs without any trading.

Which is to say, what you describe is a non-issue and irrelevant.

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Pashid wrote:

Best solution, just don't play a bad build or lack the gear forcing you to reroll often to hit something easy enough to run.
It's not hard in temp leagues and a hard reset each league, even less hard in standard with all the powerful legacy items and more power creep all over them place. lol

I am aware of the culture existing around poe, encouraging to play only what is silly broken OP this time/this patch. Usually you don't even discover this meta yourself, just read what guru say and follow them.

This is not the culture appealing to every player, and certainly not a reference for developers to balance their game around. Only in poe we can see already strong T17 bosses augmented by random layers like more aps, more aoe radius, more projectiles, more defense penetration. This is not even a semblance of balance, this is a mess like maven crucibles. Only way of getting through this reliably is to oneshot everything.

Why do you think GGG is resorting to more and more cheap retention drivers, like intentionally gimping gold income this league, making challenges more and more grindy, and (possibly) stealth nerfing base loot again? (Yes, I don't play league myself, but have feedback from friends who do). Maybe it is because above-mentioned culture doesn't help attracting new players? I wonder what will GGG do when current generation of veterans retires :)

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Echothesis wrote:

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Pashid wrote:

Best solution, just don't play a bad build or lack the gear forcing you to reroll often to hit something easy enough to run.
It's not hard in temp leagues and a hard reset each league, even less hard in standard with all the powerful legacy items and more power creep all over them place. lol

I am aware of the culture existing around poe, encouraging to play only what is silly broken OP this time/this patch. Usually you don't even discover this meta yourself, just read what guru say and follow them.

This is not the culture appealing to every player, and certainly not a reference for developers to balance their game around. Only in poe we can see already strong T17 bosses augmented by random layers like more aps, more aoe radius, more projectiles, more defense penetration. This is not even a semblance of balance, this is a mess like maven crucibles. Only way of getting through this reliably is to oneshot everything.

Why do you think GGG is resorting to more and more cheap retention drivers, like intentionally gimping gold income this league, making challenges more and more grindy, and (possibly) stealth nerfing base loot again? (Yes, I don't play league myself, but have feedback from friends who do). Maybe it is because above-mentioned culture doesn't help attracting new players? I wonder what will GGG do when current generation of veterans retires :)

silly broken op?
No just get a proper build that's it.

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Coconutdoggy wrote:

silly broken op?
No just get a proper build that's it.

Mhm, sure. Don't you see the contradiction here? On the one hand, GGG doesn't like when we "trivialize content", as per recent post from Mr.Roberts. They watch and occasionally nerf the "proper builds" to the ground, usually along with collateral damage to non-OP builds.

On the other hand, they keep adding more masochistic content which can be completed only by trivializing it. That T17 map with 3 bosses in tiny arena, can you dodge them all manually even wihtout extra aoe/aps on them? Or uber Lycia who happily sits inside her aoe hazards, so melee players cannot even approach her, and keeps shooting wide hitscan beams from there?

This turns the game into endless exploit race: player wins if he/she capitalized on game-trivializing build before it got nerfed. Which means there is no place in the game for other players, who didn't jump on that train. This is The Shit Design if I ever saw one.

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Echothesis wrote:

I am aware of the culture existing around poe, encouraging to play only what is silly broken OP this time/this patch. Usually you don't even discover this meta yourself, just read what guru say and follow them.

That's what you might need a guru to tell you whats good or bad to help you improve your own repeating old and outdated build.
You can in fact get most of all abilities ready for t17 maps if you know of what you're doing and have a glimpse of knowledge of how to scale the damage of your desired ability without dropping survival ability down to the point that you're nothing but a glass cannon.
Not even that complex anymore after all the years and changes that made this game way less complex as it used to be, and most stuff and techs being figured out by now.

Current "meta" ain't always the only viable option to crush all the entire existing content in the game, but hey you'd know that if you would actually actively play the game and go with the changes instead of being hateful that your old build is just not fully viable anymore without a change.

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Why do you think GGG is resorting to more and more cheap retention drivers, like intentionally gimping gold income this league, making challenges more and more grindy, and (possibly) stealth nerfing base loot again? (Yes, I don't play league myself, but have feedback from friends who do). Maybe it is because above-mentioned culture doesn't help attracting new players? I wonder what will GGG do when current generation of veterans retires :)

Cause there are just trying out something new like they do pretty much every league? dah, what a shocking concept in game development.

As is for the gold income is not as grindy as you think but once again you'd know if you actually played the league yourself same as for the so scary ninja nerfed loot.
Lot's of players are just in fact still spoiled about the previous boosted loot and dirt cheap t0 unique items of the previous two leagues to the point that they feel offended to get pushed into the cold water again by having the loot back to it's normal state.

With all the past patches the game has become more and more easier in lots of ways. Player power is growing non stop, temp player power is always existent in almost every league making it a whole lot easier and accessibility to desired content like map sustain, easy leveling, blasting whatever you like all day long and what not is easier than it ever was.
It's neither good or bad but all the changes did in fact caused challenges to be easier than ever you can achieve whatever you want with less grinding as it used to be years ago.
But your last league was 3 years ago, so you wouldn't know :)

POV: you haven't touched PoE for several leagues and your opinion is informed by complaints on the Feedback forums.

Indeed, can't see where that could go wrong either.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

POV: you haven't touched PoE for several leagues and your opinion is informed by complaints on the Feedback forums.

Indeed, can't see where that could go wrong either.

Seriously?:) I have 6 map device slots now, hard to remember where I got last one...

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Current "meta" ain't always the only viable option to crush all the entire existing content in the game, but hey you'd know that if you would actually actively play the game and go with the changes instead of being hateful that your old build is just not fully viable anymore without a change.

I fix some of my characters after every patch, to at least test the game before posting feedback, so unfortunately familiar with "shocking concept" of "something new". If only this new was balanced, instead of shifting weight from one gimmick to the next.

Anyway, before my personal guard arrived, last post on topic was

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Don't you see the contradiction here? On the one hand, GGG doesn't like when we "trivialize content", as per recent post from Mr.Roberts. They watch and occasionally nerf the "proper builds" to the ground, usually along with collateral damage to non-OP builds.

On the other hand, they keep adding more masochistic content which can be completed only by trivializing it. That T17 map with 3 bosses in tiny arena, can you dodge them all manually even wihtout extra aoe/aps on them? Or uber Lycia who happily sits inside her aoe hazards, so melee players cannot even approach her, and keeps shooting wide hitscan beams from there?

This turns the game into endless exploit race: player wins if he/she capitalized on game-trivializing build before it got nerfed. Which means there is no place in the game for other players, who didn't jump on that train. This is The Shit Design if I ever saw one.

Shall we continue from here?:)