T17 once again are ruining this league can GGG just discard t17 concept?

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Mashgesture wrote:

Say you cheat on a test, copied the answers from someone.

Do you understand the material and all the functions leading up to those difficult end questions/problems?

Well, no. but there isn't a path of exile manual or course you can take.
You pick stuff up over time, the amount of content is enormous for people to take in. Not everyone is keen on how the underlying mechanics work, but for those that are it's an endless sea of knowledge.
Which takes time and experience.

In the interim, copy & paste is the best tool new players have.

"

Jixa87 wrote:

"

Mashgesture wrote:

Say you cheat on a test, copied the answers from someone.

Do you understand the material and all the functions leading up to those difficult end questions/problems?

Well, no. but there isn't a path of exile manual or course you can take.
You pick stuff up over time, the amount of content is enormous for people to take in. Not everyone is keen on how the underlying mechanics work, but for those that are it's an endless sea of knowledge.
Which takes time and experience.

In the interim, copy & paste is the best tool new players have.

Respectfully, no that's false.

Blindly copying anything, even in a video game, especially path of exile...

You are doing 100% more harm than good. You arent picking anything up or understanding anything by copying a POB. You arent picking up the mechanics of the build, you arent learning what the strengths or weaknesses of the build are.

You are literally target farming items to match what you see and thats it. And then struggling through it afterwards. With... no tools to answer anything.


My first question though for this miner. What was your issue with it?

You didnt follow the guide already, the weapon setup jung has is twice your damage ... and he didnt need a mageblood to do it either.

You went with a wand instead of a scepter, dont have +fire gems on it...
You went with a different shield and gave up fog of war blind...
You went with a different chest piece....
You went with no shock ring...
You dont even have the same gem setup either...

So.... besides not following what jung put, what was its issue?

Do straight up just copy and pasted thinking it will work straight up lol

"

Mashgesture wrote:

You are doing 100% more harm than good. You arent picking anything up or understanding anything by copying a POB. You arent picking up the mechanics of the build, you arent learning what the strengths or weaknesses of the build are.

You are literally target farming items to match what you see and thats it. And then struggling through it afterwards. With... no tools to answer anything.

This covers both answers, but it's usually a case of "I can't acquire this item the build guide suggests" and the likely reason is "its too expensive or i don't know how to craft it" then try explaining crafting to people, it's usually a few hours to explain basic mechanisms of crafting.

"

Mashgesture wrote:

My first question though for this miner. What was your issue with it?

You didnt follow the guide already, the weapon setup jung has is twice your damage ... and he didnt need a mageblood to do it either.

So.... besides not following what jung put, what was its issue?

The issue was, the tank. The fog of war blind wasn't doing enough, the build falls over. Which is why I jacked up the resistances.
I would have loved to have had his weapon but after thousands of chaos buying fossils, essences, wasn't successful.
Any other version, without Utula's Hunger just didn't have enough life so you'd just get one tapped.
If you equipped Utula's Hunger, it was hard to get enough chaos res with the volume of uniques.
And the damage, at that point considering my investment, just wasn't significant enough.
https://youtu.be/wVT0Gnm0XMs?si=HBrm0nw_1ULiXhq6

Meanwhile, I might add, I have copied this.
https://poe.ninja/builds/settlers/character/PotsNpans/WomnaCantStopExploding?type=exp&i=1&search=items%3DRelic%2Bof%2Bthe%2BPact%26class%3DElementalist%26sort%3Dehp
To produce this; https://youtu.be/96iPMtrX158?si=8Advte8lfipdyIZC
which for 10 div is looking to be able to clear all content with ease.

"

Coconutdoggy wrote:

Do straight up just copy and pasted thinking it will work straight up lol

I've had a few builds, work straight up.
https://pobb.in/w4ShS0liQfZy
I copied this from POB, was able to tank uber content including double shaper beams
So don't tell me, it doesn't work. Cause it does, it's just completely dependent on price and performance.

"

Jixa87 wrote:

"

Mashgesture wrote:

You are doing 100% more harm than good. You arent picking anything up or understanding anything by copying a POB. You arent picking up the mechanics of the build, you arent learning what the strengths or weaknesses of the build are.

You are literally target farming items to match what you see and thats it. And then struggling through it afterwards. With... no tools to answer anything.

This covers both answers, but it's usually a case of "I can't acquire this item the build guide suggests" and the likely reason is "its too expensive or i don't know how to craft it" then try explaining crafting to people, it's usually a few hours to explain basic mechanisms of crafting.

"

Mashgesture wrote:

My first question though for this miner. What was your issue with it?

You didnt follow the guide already, the weapon setup jung has is twice your damage ... and he didnt need a mageblood to do it either.

So.... besides not following what jung put, what was its issue?

The issue was, the tank. The fog of war blind wasn't doing enough, the build falls over. Which is why I jacked up the resistances.
I would have loved to have had his weapon but after thousands of chaos buying fossils, essences, wasn't successful.
Any other version, without Utula's Hunger just didn't have enough life so you'd just get one tapped.
If you equipped Utula's Hunger, it was hard to get enough chaos res with the volume of uniques.
And the damage, at that point considering my investment, just wasn't significant enough.
https://youtu.be/wVT0Gnm0XMs?si=HBrm0nw_1ULiXhq6

Meanwhile, I might add, I have copied this.
https://poe.ninja/builds/settlers/character/PotsNpans/WomnaCantStopExploding?type=exp&i=1&search=items%3DRelic%2Bof%2Bthe%2BPact%26class%3DElementalist%26sort%3Dehp
To produce this; https://youtu.be/96iPMtrX158?si=8Advte8lfipdyIZC
which for 10 div is looking to be able to clear all content with ease.

So for his build he specifically said that it would have tank issues and quote "not bring this into hardcore" "this pob and guide are only for early game, for softcore trade league" @ 2:30

This build is a lot of damage but little to no defense, its not an all rounder.

The variation you tried didnt get really much either. You are held captive by your mageblood for your flasks, and your ele max hit isnt that high even with that. You didnt cap suppress or spell block.

They obviously changed determination and defiance banner but you arent working with much in terms of defense. And you are unique item heavy.


Its damage mechanics are also behind the build, so you are running face first into mobs with no tank, and then leaving trailing damage.

He left a lot of items blank because he wants you to fill all that in with defenses. But you opted for a lot of different things with the build. You could have got anything, you had a mageblood.


So this thing was walking around with 3.5k life, eldrich battery so no ES, low armor, low evasion even without the recent changes. Even if you had those auras and defiance banner.. you have 3.5k life and no defensive layers at all.

This was a frakenstein put together.... idea. And it was not followed at all from Jung. You tried to make something he didn't even put in the build guide work, thats honestly on you.

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Mashgesture wrote:

You tried to make something he didn't even put in the build guide work, thats honestly on you.

I gave it a go, learned a lot. Like most if not all, i'm still learning. It's not an easy game to just get stuck in, is the wholesome point i'm trying to make.
There are a myriad of build guides, some appeal more to others, some work better than others, some are more expensive to make work. But people who don't know any better don't know this. Don't understand this.
It's poe, you can fall down a well... hell people don't even finish the campaign stating that's too hard.
Don't make people feel bad who are genuinely giving it a go, trying different things, trying to find what works for them and what doesn't.
It's not a great attitude.

"

Jixa87 wrote:

"

Mashgesture wrote:

You tried to make something he didn't even put in the build guide work, thats honestly on you.

I gave it a go, learned a lot. Like most if not all, i'm still learning. It's not an easy game to just get stuck in, is the wholesome point i'm trying to make.
There are a myriad of build guides, some appeal more to others, some work better than others, some are more expensive to make work. But people who don't know any better don't know this. Don't understand this.
It's poe, you can fall down a well... hell people don't even finish the campaign stating that's too hard.
Don't make people feel bad who are genuinely giving it a go, trying different things, trying to find what works for them and what doesn't.
It's not a great attitude.

Okay....

But you are in this post advocating changes to t17s based on this poor experience. Which was the direct result of poor decision making on your part. After saying that you follow builds religiously, but .... you clearly dont.

So you cant even tell the truth in your posts to begin with... And I'm so supposed to feel bad when someone calls you out for it?

¿huh?

This has nothing to do with your feelings. If me telling you these facts is making you feel bad, then I dont know, thats a very odd approach on the overall message of you making a mistake.

Its like when someone tells you are doing something incorrect and you respond with "yea well youre a jerk!"

"

Mashgesture wrote:

But you are in this post advocating changes to t17s based on this poor experience.

Incorrect, this thread has enough evidence that's it not the content that's the problem. It's the character building, which is what i'm trying to highlight.

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Mashgesture wrote:

Which was the direct result of poor decision making on your part. After saying that you follow builds religiously, but .... you clearly dont.

Fair, I should stop using the word religiously and i'll start using loosely... i loosely follow build guides.

"

Mashgesture wrote:

So you cant even tell the truth in your posts to begin with... And I'm so supposed to feel bad when someone calls you out for it?

I've always felt like I followed build guides, staying with the parameters of increasing max res, phys mitigation but I still, like many, have a lot to learn.

"

Mashgesture wrote:

Its like when someone tells you are doing something incorrect and you respond with "yea well youre a jerk!"

It's all about articulation, we can't use body gestures in a forum post, all we have are words. So to the best of our ability, trying to communicate and identify what the actual problem is.

Which, I believe we agree are the decisions we make when building a character, correct?
Experienced players are much better at following build guides, farming currency and progressing through content.
T17s have encouraged players to be better, strive for better, if you wanna farm the good stuff farm t17s but to do that you need a character to match
Which if you're new, can be extremely difficult.

"

Jixa87 wrote:

T17s have encouraged players to be better, strive for better, if you wanna farm the good stuff farm t17s but to do that you need a character to match
Which if you're new, can be extremely difficult.

Well that's the same story in every game out there in terms of endgame.
No matter which game you pick there's always going to be something difficult to and hard to overcome as a inexperienced or new player. But that's the beauty of such content to encourage the audience to find ways to improve their gameplay.

I don't want to know what gaming would feel like if every game would come without something more challenging to overcome or even discourage you to get better cause there's nothing to get better at.