T17 once again are ruining this league can GGG just discard t17 concept?

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Challenges are worthless. Any moron can hire a carry for ubers or t17 it doesn't prove a thing and someone not having done them yet this league doesn't mean he hasn't done it thousands of times last league.

Both I and Nomancs have been very vocal about removing carries all together from this game. But it wouldnt be realistic.


To the point though:

You arent getting carried for 50 t17 maps lol. So if you base your opinion around t17s and you have a whopping 3 of them done, you haven't really showed me an understanding of them at any level.

And you didnt get carried for 3 of them, that would be the oddest carry in the world. And if you did get carried how the hell would you know anything about the loot lol.

A perfect example of this was another conversation when someone was trying to say they "farm t17s" as a loot strategy but we look at they have 4 of them completed. So they were just straight lying about it, trying to push a narrative about loot strategies.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Meta in most PvP games is based on viability

Well its a good thing this isnt a pvp game.


Meta: Most effective tactics available.

You. Are. Wrong. About. SRS. Being. Meta.




Lets move on from that one. Its not even in the top 10 skills used.

Not even in the top 20 builds played this league lmfao

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Baharoth15 wrote:

As for the other 3 points, i've never seen any of you do any of that so. All you people ever do is mocking people for their builds and use that as a reason to invalidate their opinions. You aren't helping anyone, ever. I've got a quite a lot of posts in the gameplay help section helping people. Can't say the same about you.

We help people constantly want me to link you to them?

I dont help you with your builds because you, welp, we wont go there. But you have struggles with melee we'll just say. I think there is an expert that can help you with that.

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Baharoth15 wrote:

Besides, your weird logic doesn't apply here anyway since i am not criticizing his build for being bad. His build is perfect if you want to have an easy time. The problem is that he is picking that build and then complaining about having an easy time.

The only weird logic here is you looking at Nomancs build, calling it, falsely again, Meta.

And then telling him his opinion on game difficulty doesn't matter.

It seems to be some arbitrary line on builds where someones opinion on game difficulty matters and doesn't with you. Where that is, who knows. Definitely not what is meta and what isnt. You cant even get that one correct to begin with.

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Phrazz wrote:

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Echothesis wrote:

Thank you all for advice, but as I suspected, there is no way to fit those mechanics into my favorite build.

Are you sure? There are tons of people playing lots of builds on the right side of the tree, surviving just fine farming T17s and Ubers.

I haven't read everything in here, but may I ask what "your favorite build" is, and how it's impossible to fit more defensive mechanics into it?

Coc char in my profile, there is only one. And before you burst into laughter, yeah, I know performance is outdated, GGG has been hammering this concept with nerfs time and again. Mana cost alone is ridiculous by now. But there is no other build I ever had with such smooth handling.

When poe mobs will move and attack slower, and screen clusterfuck is fixed (not Ruthless-fixed where mobs remain the same, you just lose all loot), I will gladly play selfcast with 5 buttons. Until then, autobomber only :)

Also FYI, I've never used POB, all experiments done in game, which is another reason why I resent exp penalty so much. So there are probably non-optimized stats there.

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Echothesis wrote:

Coc char in my profile, there is only one. And before you burst into laughter, yeah, I know performance is outdated, GGG has been hammering this concept with nerfs time and again. Mana cost alone is ridiculous by now. But there is no other build I ever had with such smooth handling.

Not necessarily as you can still make amazing coc builds with cospri.
Have you looked at any of the more recent low life or CI cospri builds? They both do function the same as your current build with just way better performance and suited for todays PoE in terms of damage and survivability.

They could be a decent upgrade to your current build and stuff shouldn't be expensive giving that standard is flooded with good items if you're lucky to catch someone selling them.

Yeah, I know cold coc should be CI occultist, it was true not just in modern poe. But really don't like witch's model and animations.

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Echothesis wrote:

Yeah, I know cold coc should be CI occultist, it was true not just in modern poe. But really don't like witch's model and animations.

Oof. Lamenting difficulty of content while at the same time knowingly choosing the weaker ascendancy due to model and animation preferences. Something doesn't add up here.

I'm afraid the "RP" in "ARPG" is a holdover from days gone by. If you want to beat all content you have to make build strength your priority. And yes that means using pob unless you are part of the absolute elite that can make uber viable builds just from "feel", without checking the numbers.

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Nomancs wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

You are in no position to say that though. All your topics about "game too easy" are also solely attitude problems. The solutions for your issues are already there (harder modes, non meta builds) you just refuse to use them. It's all just a "you" issue. Doesn't stop you from insisting on it.

When people complain about the game being too hard you go "play another build". But when you complain about the game being too easy and people tell you to play a harder mode that's an invalid argument because you don't want to. Nice double standard.

Because it is too easy, I even use half the items I used last league, and still it is way too easy. Is your solution is to play naked toon to feel any challenge?:P I want the game to test my skill, so I would have to use as best gear as I could, to use every trick in my sleeve, not just be an idle clicker, lol. Or do you think hc or ruthless have different monsters than on softcore? xD

What a batshit take. ARPGs aren't Dark Souls. Learn your genres.

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Nomancs wrote:

Because it is too easy, I even use half the items I used last league, and still it is way too easy. Is your solution is to play naked toon to feel any challenge?:P I want the game to test my skill, so I would have to use as best gear as I could, to use every trick in my sleeve, not just be an idle clicker, lol. Or do you think hc or ruthless have different monsters than on softcore? xD

To test your skill, the genre to go for are PvP games, like SC2 or LoL or DOTA... PoE is ultimately a PvE game, which is designed so that you win. You winning thus isn't ever really a test of skill or much of an achievement, because that's the ending the game is made for.

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Nomancs wrote:

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Baharoth15 wrote:

You are in no position to say that though. All your topics about "game too easy" are also solely attitude problems. The solutions for your issues are already there (harder modes, non meta builds) you just refuse to use them. It's all just a "you" issue. Doesn't stop you from insisting on it.

When people complain about the game being too hard you go "play another build". But when you complain about the game being too easy and people tell you to play a harder mode that's an invalid argument because you don't want to. Nice double standard.

Because it is too easy, I even use half the items I used last league, and still it is way too easy. Is your solution is to play naked toon to feel any challenge?:P I want the game to test my skill, so I would have to use as best gear as I could, to use every trick in my sleeve, not just be an idle clicker, lol. Or do you think hc or ruthless have different monsters than on softcore? xD

I think this is hilarious and shows the problem with games today. The guy has been playing in a guild for 12 years, always in softcore trade. With a guild, he plays 20h/7 always with a meta build and says he wants to be challenged??? GGG made the HC mode, the SSF mode, the Ruthless mode, but you play in softcore trade??
My friend, even though I'm a beginner programmer, I know how easy it is to make a player die. I know how to program a progress barrier that declines after a while of playing. If you play something for 12 years, 20h a day, and it's not easy for you, you have a problem. So what games do for you is create progression barriers, and THAT'S what the t17s are in PoE. They're just barriers that fall after you've played 200h~300h, that is, if you don't use xploits or buy items with real money. If you use this, this barrier will fall even sooner. The problem is that those who don't have these 300 hours will be stuck in a monotonous game with no progress and no meaning. No matter how much this barrier is raised, inevitably the no-lifers will pass it, and the softcores and casuals will realize how stupid this is and BOTH will stop, and that's why the POE leagues are systematically dying faster and faster.
I work all day (and not sitting around playing a game on a stream). When I turn on a game, I want ENTERTAINMENT, I want to have fun, not to be "challenged", because that doesn't exist in a PVE game, especially in a SOFTCORE game with 12 years of life playing with a meta build...

If the concept of t17 were really something extra only for the most "excited" that would be fine, but the fact is that the game is becoming empty, and everything reasonable is being pushed to the uber content, so either you do uber/t17 or you are just wasting time. The t17 map made the whole game trivial, useless. Before, a casual player could make a good profit selling fragments. Now the t17 has made the life of the "hardcores" MUCH EASIER by punishing casual and softcore players. Killing the pinnacles gives nothing, what was still valuable (the fragments) are now worthless. All drops in the game were removed from the maps and thrown into the super juiced t17, which makes the journey through the awakened orb useless, since their idea was to make all maps a part of the end game farm by making all maps t16, but now t16 continues to be horrible as always, but emptied of meaning, without loot, without real progress.
Even things from the leagues like the 5th slot of the map devise that belonged to the Legion league were thrown into the t17 maps. So where before we had thousands of farming options, now we only have 1 represented by 4 repetitive and tiring maps with inconsistent drops.
The concept of t17 as a challenge is ok, but the moment it empties everything else, this becomes a problem. If the idea is to be a challenge then it should drop the same (or even less) than the rest, so only those who want to be "challenged" play this, but that's not what they want, they want content to massage their egos, make their farm easier and create a gap between those who play 1000 hours in a league and people who play to have fun.

My personal problem with T17s is that a lot of their value is locked behind the boss and the boss is completely overturned in comparison to the rest of the map.

Like, I can plow through the map with ease, do all the league mechanics I normally do, and then against the boss, I would need a completely different character (or like 4 times more damage) because there's metric shitton of area damage involved, so having a character that needs to sit in a spot and doesn't have a lot of regen makes it extremely difficult.