The Self Found League

"

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

It's not crafting vs trading, people. It's crafting vs (gear) farming.

Good posts from you SMB. As I see it there are 3 routes to upgrading items.

1) Farming Gear - Investment of Time
2) Crafting - Investment of Currency
3) Trading - Investment of (Less) Time or Currency (minus trade value of obsolete/used gear)

Eliminating trade alone doesn't force players to choose 2 but it does make the choice more direct. Do I spend time farming or do I invest currency which itself takes time to find. The opportunity cost is time. So if all that matters is time, the question then becomes what is the most efficient use of my time. Ideally it would come down to RNG. It does not. Things are further complicated by the diminishing returns on farming currency at higher levels which contribute to the 'Mapping and End Game Crafting' opportunity cost of currency.

Gear=Time*RNG, does not diminish
Currency = Time*RNG, diminishes at higher levels
Opportunity Cost of Currency = Mapping and End Game Crafting

Because the time cost of currency decreases relative to the time cost of gear the opportunity cost of currency becomes greater at higher levels. I would make a few suggestions on top of a self found or bind-on-equip ruleset. More consistent currency/gear drop rates from level 1 to level 100, pending the level of content and the availability of IIQ/IIR. I mention IIQ/IIR because the facility to stack them at a higher level, especially in a group, could discourage rerolling a new character. Gear drop rates should also be tempered at higher levels as far as I know they are not, and that contributes to the increasing opportunity cost of currency. In this way we will have a consistent time opportunity cost for crafting versus finding gear, no matter how far you are into the game.

That's not the whole story though. Because currency directly affects the quantity and rarity of loot from maps it must be as valuable as the total improvement in loot. That is difficult to qualify but given that you can choose what you craft and you cannot choose what items drop that opportunity cost is more balance under a SF/BOE ruleset.

For example, if I am looking for a bow upgrade and I Chaos a map then any rare thicket bows or currency I otherwise would not have found are the opportunity cost of that Chaos orb versus using it to craft. Furthermore, if that map drops any maps that otherwise would not have dropped then any thicket bows that subsequent map drops are a function of the original Chaos. If I use an additional Chaos, perhaps to roll Maze, then its opportunity cost would be the additional bows, currency and maps that would not have been found after using just one Chaos. The second Chaos has significantly smaller economic benefit, but properties like Maze are highly desirable and make up for the increased opportunity cost. The probability costs could be calculated but the maths are complicated. I would suggest making Maze or other such highly desirable map properties implicit or rebalanced with currency opportunity cost in mind.

Under the current system a single currency is always better spent on maps versus crafts. Which means the time cost of spending currency on a lvl 38 Grove Bow is as long as it takes to find as many Thicket Bows, currency and maps you would have otherwise not found if that currency was spent on a map instead. Ergo the opportunity cost of crafting lvl 38 Grove Bow = Time Cost of Finding Late Game Gear without spending said currency on map.

That's not necessarily a bad thing if we had more currency than we needed to spend on maps. Rebalancing highly desirable map mods will abate the problem but it would be good if currency was common enough that the opportunity cost of getting desirable map mods diminished greatly with each marginal currency spent. In that way players would be encouraged to use a minimal amount of currency on maps and the rest on crafting (or trading).

I also recognize the solution I described hinges greatly on balanced drop rates. Finding the right drop rates would be a trial and error process best suited for small custom leagues.

Lastly the difference between Self-Found and Bind-on-Equip is that the latter allows for upgrades via method (3) but removes the value of obsolete or used gear, thus not being overwhelmingly the right choice against methods (1) or (2). However, under a BOE ruleset there's still no reason to Chaos an ilvl38 Grove Bow if somebody found a good ilvl38 Grove Bow and saved it to trade. BOE does however mean that very powerful used gear can no longer be arbitraged and would mean methods (1) and (2) are highly viable for end game itemization.


Summary:
### - Self Found or Bind-on-Equip ruleset
### - Consistent gear and currency drop rates regardless of game progress, but accounting for the relative level of content and availability of IIQ/IIR at that level.
### - Rebalance highly desirable map mods like 'Maze' with crafting currency opportunity cost in mind, this should lead to a diminished economic benefit for spending additional currency on maps to get their mods just right
### - Balance crafting currency drop rates such that we have more currency than maps on which to spend, assuming the benefit of spending additional marginal currency on a map is greatly diminished
### - Custom Leagues with control over drops rates would be ideal to find a happy drop rate balance.

"

NefariousNoetic wrote:

your all missing a very important piece to your arguement, ... items drop... there will still be trade, some one will cross league trade take the risk, and meet up and oops i dropped my item hey pick it up . bamm bubble busted... ppl will do it trust me, i remember the diablo 2 scams from dropping from inventory trades lol hahahahah funny times funny times indeed...he man you promised... haha there goes your loot

"

your all missing a very important piece to your arguement, ... items drop... there will still be trade, some one will cross league trade take the risk, and meet up and oops i dropped my item hey pick it up . bamm bubble busted... ppl will do it trust me, i remember the diablo 2 scams from dropping from inventory trades lol hahahahah funny times funny times indeed...he man you promised... haha there goes your loot

"

thats not a problem if the opportunity cost of crafting vs crafting maps vs farming is balanced

see the above post

"

Soloing vs Partying: While going to the effort of playing in a group (which requires coordination and dealing with other humans) and trading (which requires learning a lot about items) should be rewarded, we definitely want to make sure that it's still fun and compelling when you don't engage in these systems. We're already making changes to how MF and party bonuses work, so there may also be some that affect the difficulty of play in parties. We're not sure how that'll end up yet - still testing!