3.15 League Starters

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June9 wrote:

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1453R wrote:

It feels like Spellslinger gets double-whammied this patch, yeah. Overfat reservation plus full mana cost of the associated spell. Oof. On the other hand, I feel like Spellslinger is supposed to mate a not-insignificant attack with a less-than-6L spell, which it may be able to do. I'm hoping Spellslinger sees some adjustments in 3.16 either way, but it may not be entirely unsalvageable.

Agreed on maybe not using it as a league starter, though. Spellslinger feels like it's gonna be a dicey start, there's more stable options out there.

The cool thing with Forbidden Rite, for me, is that the skill is nearly four times stronger if you don't do the obvious thing and run Chaos Inoculation. Building for life-based Forbidden Rite will be much more difficult, but a lot more rewarding if one can pull it off. Any ideas which way you're swinging, and how to mitigate the huge self-damage you take if you go life-based?

They just said about increase mana multipl. on support gems and ofc mana cost of triggered spells. The root mechanic of spellslinger is 'trigger' too, BUT! there is no tag of 'Trigger' and the spell itself is arranged like an aura with a certain amount of reservation, no more. The existence of gem like this just would not make sense. So you only have to worry about the increased reservation for the spellslinger.

I'm reasonably sure Spellslinger spells still need to pay their mana cost. The gem explicitly states it triggers spells, and 'Trigger' isn't really a skill gem tag. Nor are tags the only ways the game tracks this stuff. It'd be nice if Spellslinger offered a discount, yeah, but the entire goal behind this patch seems to be forcing people to invest in things they previously got for free. Spellslinger builds are going to need a whole heckuva lot of mana cost reductions for their spells and will want to try and secure attack leech if they can to help offset all the mana they're blasting out like an untamed fire hose. Could also be that Spellslinger will start working better with lower mana cost spells, or just like CoC the Spellslinger people will have to accept a lower trigger rate for their Spellslung spells than would have been considered acceptable in the past.

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June9 wrote:

They just said about increase mana multipl. on support gems and ofc mana cost of triggered spells. The root mechanic of spellslinger is 'trigger' too, BUT! there is no tag of 'Trigger' and the spell itself is arranged like an aura with a certain amount of reservation, no more. The existence of gem like this just would not make sense. So you only have to worry about the increased reservation for the spellslinger.

I would have to pull out the source again, but sadly GGG has confimed on Reddit, that you have to pay the mana cost of the triggered spells on top, which kills the gem, at least for me. But according to them, the fact that you can ignore cast speeds and the added damage is already enough to justify the reserved mana. -.-

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Orbaal wrote:

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HoockBr wrote:

I loved the new chaos spell forbiden rite and was really going for self casting it.

But every build for selfcast i can think is still worst by far than a totem build for it.

As i dont like totem, and dont like knowing that the totem version is much better, im going to not play this skill.

=P

But why? :)

I´ll transition into this skill later and I do think its gonna be great for general clear and might also be ok for bossing. Hard to tell without knowing the numbers for lv20 gems just yet.

37 points invested on passive tree on totem life nodes + soul mantle 50% totem life = 13k life totem on level 20

12% damage from life compared to 5% from energy shield of forbiden rite

5 totems at same time

now lets see, i need gg gear to get to 10k energy shield doing 5% damage and having to run like a chiken from boss one shots

*just put some more cluster jewels for more totem life and they got to 20k life totems

I see myself waiting for 2 weeks before I may consider starting playing Expedition League.
I also see these newer Supporter Packs these days is also coming with only 1 item, prior to what they used to coem with according to Basic Packs.
What it is nowadays, is more (unfortunately) greed.
Very attractive and nice this new Aesir Supporter Pack, but...

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HoockBr wrote:

37 points invested on passive tree on totem life nodes + soul mantle 50% totem life = 13k life totem on level 20

12% damage from life compared to 5% from energy shield of forbiden rite

5 totems at same time

now lets see, i need gg gear to get to 10k energy shield doing 5% damage and having to run like a chiken from boss one shots

Yeah and no :p

Without cluster jewels the totems will literally kill themselves before you can even summon all of them, so you will rarely have all 5 up.
Also slower cast speed ofc will take a toll on the real dps output.

If or rather when all totems drop dead you will be swarmed and die not to mention you have to deal with crappy rings and rest that comes with soul mantle - like having to look at the ugly Templar 3D model and no totems MTXs.
Hows is that acceptable? :p


Whereas Occ will get to 10k ES eventually or you go straight LL and sacrifice some ES (not that much tho because Chayulas Presence scales ES of your life) but you will have a 7th link as well as some life for extra dmg.
Scale block, annoint Commander of Steel and spec into Spiritual Aid for a lot of generic dmg to boost Profane Bloom explosions to zoom through maps.
Bosses arent that much of an issue if you go for a 2nd curse and combine Aspect of Spider, Skitterbot chill plus Temp Chains so the boss barely moves at all.

Yes it does take longer than Soul Mantle cheese to get the gear going but it should be more fun and prevent the chicken mode from happening as well.
Not to mention the Witches 3D model looks far superior and has no MTX issues.

Thats a no brainer for me :)

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HoockBr wrote:

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Orbaal wrote:

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HoockBr wrote:

I loved the new chaos spell forbiden rite and was really going for self casting it.

But every build for selfcast i can think is still worst by far than a totem build for it.

As i dont like totem, and dont like knowing that the totem version is much better, im going to not play this skill.

=P

But why? :)

I´ll transition into this skill later and I do think its gonna be great for general clear and might also be ok for bossing. Hard to tell without knowing the numbers for lv20 gems just yet.

37 points invested on passive tree on totem life nodes + soul mantle 50% totem life = 13k life totem on level 20

12% damage from life compared to 5% from energy shield of forbiden rite

5 totems at same time

now lets see, i need gg gear to get to 10k energy shield doing 5% damage and having to run like a chiken from boss one shots

Soul Mantle also inflicts extremely deadly curses on you every time one of your totems dies, which will happen basically all the time. The Spell Totem support gem itself causes the totem to deal 26% less damage, and to cast its spell 30% slower. Five totems can only be had through Multiple Totems Support, which also causes a 21% less damage penalty.

Self-cast CI Forbidden Rite will cast more quickly and with significantly fewer penalties. It doesn't have the ramp-up required for totem builds since you don't need to summon multiple totems and wait for them to start casting. I imagine CI selfcast Forbidden Rite will be fine. It may cap out lower than Soul Mantle totems, but it will have its advantages. Frankly, I'm expecting the real kicker with Forbidden Rite to be a Shavronne's Wrappings low-life build, not necessarily CI. Forbidden Rite stacked on Petrified BLood with Shav's Wrappings to ensure the damage goes to your shield, do that Corrupted Soul Timeless keystone that lets half of non-chaos damage through your shield so you can improve your recovery whilst letting the self damage from Rite continue bouncing off your shield...I imagine somebody's gonna come up with an expensive but exceptionally powerful Forbidden Rite build with those or similar pieces. Much stronger than the Soul Mantle totem build.

I really think self casting is way fun and beauty than totem, thats why im upset, that it doesnt seen like a real choice if i see such gap in damage between build styles.

20 k life totem (yes i just made it on pob, cheap and budget)

a) 12% from 20k = 5 times more damage than 5% of 10k

b)soul mantle is already a 7 linked, and curses are really easy to deal

c) 5 totems against 1 you = 5 times more again

d)30% less cast speed and 25% less damage from spell totem = aprox 52% less damage

so its 5 x 5 x 0,5 = 12,5 times more damage than self casting

e)Cluster jewel ancestral preservation = 30% totem life + 40% chaos resists (on same passive), totem wont die that fast.


Just like i told, see Zizaram is just going for totens for this spell, its a no brain choice...

Self casting it for fun and dealing 10 times less damage is bad.

Im really bad at doing builds but im intereseted in the new blade trap and the rework of seismic trap (one of the few buff of this patch :p).

Im totally lost on how to scale Blade Trap and what is the best weapon for it ...

slam totem (with consacrated path or something else) could be a better and safer option i guess :)

I am leaning towards a full on shield build, with shield crush, shield throw, shield charge. Probably a ranger cause I had an old one named Perandus Pinball and the bouncing shield is just fantastic fun. I would love to add in sound clips from pinball machines for the loot drops.

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moumout wrote:

Im really bad at doing builds but im intereseted in the new blade trap and the rework of seismic trap (one of the few buff of this patch :p).

Im totally lost on how to scale Blade Trap and what is the best weapon for it ...

slam totem (with consacrated path or something else) could be a better and safer option i guess :)

Blade Trap scales off of your weapon damage and off of generic trap damage. Apparently it counts as an attack, which is crazy and offers a lot of potential damage scaling. Trap supports were left mostly untouched; their mana multipliers went up but otherwise they suffered effectively none of the sweeping changes other builds did. If Blade Trap scales on attack damage, then it's going to be incredibly powerful.

The best way to scale it would be to find a dagger, claw, or one-handed sword (depending on which class you're playing and where in the tree you are) with the highest possible single-hit damage. Blade Trap deals a fixed amount of 'attacks' from your weapon at a fixed rate, so it ignores attack speed and similar 'overall DPS' modifiers entirely. You want the biggest, gnarstiest damage number you can find, even if the weapon has a terribly low attack speed that would otherwise cripple it. The big winner is probably a dagger-based Saboteur, given how difficult it is to build sustain into non-Saboteur trap builds.