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This is not the main issue. The main issue is that the sequence with for example Blazing Salvo breaks seemingly "randomly". I have made a clip for this where you can see the following: When you throw your mines, start the detonation sequence and then keep throwing traps to "refuel" the next chain it sometimes randomly just flat out stops detonating. Sometimes even after ONE detonated mine and sometimes it didnt even detonate a single mine when the detonate key was pressed. I took a short clip recreating this behaviour. I first noticed this when I was doing bossing. Sometimes I would absolutely melt Conq's and sometimes it would take forever because my detonation sequence kept breaking and breaking. I hope it is okay to post the streamable link in here if not I'm very sorry but this was the easiest way to show how ot recreate this. Here is the clip!: https://streamable.com/4n39r9
Exactly this, whatever it is with the cast speed, going in and throwing all your mines just for the sequence to not even reach 5 detonations and then having the boss run away can't be described as intended behavior or working the same as before.
Last edited by Qbicx on Apr 19, 2021, 6:27:50 AM
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Posted byQbicxon Apr 19, 2021, 6:27:20 AM
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same here, 19 mines placed, 11 remain after rearmed and chain reaction ended. Tried with pyroclast on tremor rod and all mines triggered.
That's not a bug and that's not even bad. What's happening is that some mines rearmed before the first sequence ends, and are included in the original chain sequence. But that's very good for you since mines do more damage for detonated mine in the sequence and if you're saboteur you get more buffs from it as well. It does mean you need to place 7-8 mines for the second sequence before detonating it though.
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Posted byheisheon Apr 19, 2021, 6:56:15 AM
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same here, 19 mines placed, 11 remain after rearmed and chain reaction ended. Tried with pyroclast on tremor rod and all mines triggered.
That's not a bug and that's not even bad. What's happening is that some mines rearmed before the first sequence ends, and are included in the original chain sequence. But that's very good for you since mines do more damage for detonated mine in the sequence and if you're saboteur you get more buffs from it as well. It does mean you need to place 7-8 mines for the second sequence before detonating it though.
No, it's definitely a bug and it's definitely bad. It's not that all 19 detonate followed by 8 more re-detonating before the sequence ends.
It seems to be an issue related to mines detonating twice. If you remove Tremor Rod, but allocate the Efficient Explosives node you get a 10% chance for a mine to detonate an additional time you get the same issue just greatly reduced. If you add Tremor Rod into the mix it really takes off and it will break your detonation sequence greatly reducing damage output.
Since Tim_GGG says it's related to casting speed I'm wondering if how detonating mine logic works is that it will randomly detonate one of your currently placed mines. After one is detonated it then picks a new mine to detonate. This works fine if all mines detonate once. However if a mine can detonate twice it can be re-selected to detonate before it has had time to re-arm (before 0.7 seconds has passed) and thus ends the detonation sequence.
Could that be correct? If it is then it's clearly a bug and should be fixed.
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Posted byThuzad2on Apr 19, 2021, 7:57:34 AM
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Maybe it's just me (? not sure since I'm not the most experienced player)
But I'm not sure how cast speed would be causing this? If this was a cast speed problem, it would prevent the full sequence from ever detonating, correct?
Except (for me at least) sometimes it detonates the entire sequence (15-17 mines), sometimes only 3, sometimes 5, etc. On the same character, same build, no variables (I removed all buffs and auras to be sure).
This bug is really annoying because sometimes the damage will absolutely melt bosses, and then I go same boss and it takes 2 mins to kill them...?!
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Posted byFelix44on Apr 19, 2021, 8:52:29 AM
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Ok so is the interaction with Blazing salvo+tremor rod considered a bug that should be fixed or working as intended?
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Posted byTomtahon Apr 19, 2021, 9:06:42 AM
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Ok so is the interaction with Blazing salvo+tremor rod considered a bug that should be fixed or working as intended?
Well according to GGG - they don't see anything wrong with it... I mean for F sake - all mine skills, or popular spells used with mines have cast time of 0.6s or more, with only exception of pyroclast.
How on earth item working properly just with one skill is OKAY????
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Posted bywalentazon Apr 19, 2021, 9:11:52 AM
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I just tested this on the current patch and an older patch (3.13.2). I compared how well mines chain with Tremor Rod on each patch and there is no difference between the patches.
However there is a difference between how well mines chain, and this is mostly related to the cast time of the skill the mine uses. A mine placed with Tremor Rod won't rearm until it has cast its skill. This is particularly obvious if you link Portal to Blastchain Mine.
Pyroclast Mine, with a cast time of 0.18 seconds, has a much faster cast time compared to the other mine skills and most other skills in the game, such as Blazing Salvo, with a cast time of 0.7 seconds. This is why it chains better with Tremor Rod, the mines rearm much faster to be ready to chain again.
Somewhat unintuitively you can get cast speed to increase the speed at which your mines rearm with Tremor Rod, although from my testing you need quite a large amount to make a noticeable difference. For example, you'd need ~280% increased cast speed to lower the cast time of Blazing Salvo to 0.18 to match the cast time of Pyroclast Mine.
Tim thanks for looking into it but can you check into one more thing regarding the sequence breaking sometimes after 1-5 mines detonated if you throw max mines and hit the detonate button once you will see that after a few attempts you will get a sequence that is not consistent, most of us are having only 1-5 detonations after the first detonation. Thats the big issue because this inconsistency was not occuring in practice.
Last edited by teegeti on Apr 19, 2021, 10:22:26 AM
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Posted byteegetion Apr 19, 2021, 10:19:23 AM
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I just tested this on the current patch and an older patch (3.13.2). I compared how well mines chain with Tremor Rod on each patch and there is no difference between the patches.
However there is a difference between how well mines chain, and this is mostly related to the cast time of the skill the mine uses. A mine placed with Tremor Rod won't rearm until it has cast its skill. This is particularly obvious if you link Portal to Blastchain Mine.
Pyroclast Mine, with a cast time of 0.18 seconds, has a much faster cast time compared to the other mine skills and most other skills in the game, such as Blazing Salvo, with a cast time of 0.7 seconds. This is why it chains better with Tremor Rod, the mines rearm much faster to be ready to chain again.
Somewhat unintuitively you can get cast speed to increase the speed at which your mines rearm with Tremor Rod, although from my testing you need quite a large amount to make a noticeable difference. For example, you'd need ~280% increased cast speed to lower the cast time of Blazing Salvo to 0.18 to match the cast time of Pyroclast Mine.
sir can you view this video made just a couple days before league start,
showcasing how they used to work with full chains. now they dont work like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLvDvi8EcEI
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Posted byHilandaron Apr 19, 2021, 11:15:33 AM
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I just tested this on the current patch and an older patch (3.13.2). I compared how well mines chain with Tremor Rod on each patch and there is no difference between the patches.
However there is a difference between how well mines chain, and this is mostly related to the cast time of the skill the mine uses. A mine placed with Tremor Rod won't rearm until it has cast its skill. This is particularly obvious if you link Portal to Blastchain Mine.
Pyroclast Mine, with a cast time of 0.18 seconds, has a much faster cast time compared to the other mine skills and most other skills in the game, such as Blazing Salvo, with a cast time of 0.7 seconds. This is why it chains better with Tremor Rod, the mines rearm much faster to be ready to chain again.
Somewhat unintuitively you can get cast speed to increase the speed at which your mines rearm with Tremor Rod, although from my testing you need quite a large amount to make a noticeable difference. For example, you'd need ~280% increased cast speed to lower the cast time of Blazing Salvo to 0.18 to match the cast time of Pyroclast Mine.
Please test this more carefully. Pyroclast mine has no visual rearm time at all, not even a frame of it. Perhaps this is even an oversight in favor of the skill, hard to say.
Furthermore, the issue people are having is detonations stopping early in this patch. I have had this happen EVEN WITH PYROCLAST, but most people are noticing it with blazing salvo. Sometimes they stop before encountering any rearmed mines at all.
It appears to impact anything that allows mines to detonate a second time, like Efficient Explosives, not just Tremor Rod.
This is a separate issue from rearm times entirely.
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Posted byyakrion Apr 19, 2021, 12:22:45 PM
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I just tested this on the current patch and an older patch (3.13.2). I compared how well mines chain with Tremor Rod on each patch and there is no difference between the patches.
However there is a difference between how well mines chain, and this is mostly related to the cast time of the skill the mine uses. A mine placed with Tremor Rod won't rearm until it has cast its skill. This is particularly obvious if you link Portal to Blastchain Mine.
Pyroclast Mine, with a cast time of 0.18 seconds, has a much faster cast time compared to the other mine skills and most other skills in the game, such as Blazing Salvo, with a cast time of 0.7 seconds. This is why it chains better with Tremor Rod, the mines rearm much faster to be ready to chain again.
Somewhat unintuitively you can get cast speed to increase the speed at which your mines rearm with Tremor Rod, although from my testing you need quite a large amount to make a noticeable difference. For example, you'd need ~280% increased cast speed to lower the cast time of Blazing Salvo to 0.18 to match the cast time of Pyroclast Mine.
So if I understand correctly tremor rod have been ninja nerf ?
Because it wasn't working like that last league....
So either is
1. ninja nerf and its now how tremor work
OR
2. This is a bug
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Posted byLe_gentlemannon Apr 19, 2021, 1:08:13 PM
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