Streamer priority confirmed. PoE is free to play, so play it for free, but Boycott GGG.

I think faking it is far too simple in this case. He is naturally diplomatic, and I think, believes his own words. Which isn't to say they're false or misleading. OTOH maybe that's just me insulating myself against a mastermind manipulator's possible influence. I couldn't tell you. I can say that my acrimony and contentiousness never once outlasted his ability to placate. Whether that is because I was being irrational or because he's a smooth operator, again, I have no idea.

But unlike me, GGG has words *and* actions, and I choose to listen to the latter these days. If I listen at all.

As regards the running of the company, yeah. I couldn't. I have trouble sleeping when a thousand bucks is on the line. Some people are cut out for high stress living where the fate of hundreds of lives and millions of dollars is their daily fare. I'm dead sure Chris is. But I was also dead sure he'd someday cash out as is his due and relax but that clearly didn't happen. I suspect a condition of the big sale was him sticking around to keep the goose laying those golden eggs (not the first time I've used that one, because it works) which means the pay day...wasn't really. Sure. He gets to keep working on his baby but the whole point of rearing something from birth is to someday let it go. Let others more equipped to help or grow take over and I dunno, retire and reap the rewards. Thing is, I've seen a lot of people retire fairly young and fairly rich and they've blown it. I know Chris is more than aware of this as well. So there is a sanity to staying on despite not financially needing to. Despite knowing deep down you are no longer the boss.

But I genuinely think PoE ran its course as a great game a while ago. And what a run it was. It's just sort of unnatural now to me. Like a faded movie star with way too much plastic surgery and questionable support in an inherently compromised industry. In healthier times we would have seen a true second GGG game by now. And I reckon it would have been something truly incredible. But in the age of the GaaS, sequels are rare and the aim of the game is less about making incredible things and more about making incredible numbers. Player count. Concurrency. Viewers. Revenue. There is little room for art in there.

Anyway, there are beds we make and beds we lie in. The quality of the sheets and the fluffiness of the pillows matter little when you are stuck there.

Re: self inflicted: I think that is another case of victim of circumstance. Of momentum. And inertia. But it might just come down to the possibility that they number crunched it all and figured out exactly how little each league needed to still rake in the support. We will never know that one I suspect.

"

Foreverhappychan wrote:

Anyway, there are beds we make and beds we lie in. The quality of the sheets and the fluffiness of the pillows matter little when you are stuck there.

It is like complaining where they sleep. The landlord ever so often doing renovation and construction on the house without notice. Except you don't rent the place it is free, but you bought all the furnitures fasten securely in a particular place or position. Lamenting they can't choose to sleep somewhere else because all their lovely furnitures are there. People can't go somewhere else or do they just don't want to?

Is this the case of self inflicted injuries or victim of circumstance?

Well this is pivoting my analogy in an unfair way. The condition I set was a complete lack of freedom to leave the bed, which then invalidates its level of comfort. The gilded cage.

Remove that condition and naturally it no longer works. Then it's no longer a cage.

But if the argument became one of perceived imprisonment due to attachment to comforts and perks, then I think the gaping hole where my $20,000 or so worth of mtxes used to be is a perfect rebuke. They were an anchor about my neck, and their obliteration felt like emancipation. They once brought me such joy, such pride...but by the end they were just meaningless reminders of someone else's war in which I happened to pick a side and support that side generously.

That side lost, even though those waving its prosperous flag claim otherwise.

On 'faking it' what Chris is doing now is indistinguishable on either side of that proposition.

A) If GGG wanted to 'fake it' and placate the 'outrage' what would they do? Make the 'media rounds' - not to the gaming press but to people that players have a connection with - streamers. They would say things like, 'we hear you, we understand, we agree' then do very little to enact what players say they want.

B) If GGG truly wanted to be contrite and was willing to do what the community suggested in a good faith effort to give them what they say they want, what would they do? Make the 'media rounds' with streamers and by proxy their audience (which totals to tens of thousands of players) and gather feedback and have a back and forth, do some reflection on both sides of the issues, then compromise.

So at this point in time we have 0 way of knowing which it is. How much compromise comes in the next two patch cycles? That will be our answer.

I know damn well how much of a rock and a hard place they are between because Chris is right about a lot of the gamer psychology he talks about. With many suggestions out there it really is a "you think you want the systems to work this way but you don't" scenario because players are absolutely awful at imagining all the ways in which their 'fixes' break other things for other players with other preferences.

Time proves everything right or wrong though.

"

innervation wrote:

So at this point in time we have 0 way of knowing which it is. How much compromise comes in the next two patch cycles? That will be our answer.

Time proves everything right or wrong though.

The suspense is killing me. I can't wait for 3.16 patch notes.

I think it says something about GGG though because we really have no clue as to what is going to happen or even if it is tilted towards something.

"

innervation wrote:

I know damn well how much of a rock and a hard place they are between because Chris is right about a lot of the gamer psychology he talks about. With many suggestions out there it really is a "you think you want the systems to work this way but you don't" scenario because players are absolutely awful at imagining all the ways in which their 'fixes' break other things for other players with other preferences.

Time proves everything right or wrong though.

No such thing as having the cake and eating it. It either sacrifice one or or the other. People wouldn't care if having their way "RUIN" other players enjoyment of the game. Their enjoyment is what matter most. Everyone can't have the POE they all want, that include GGG and Chris.

"

zakalwe55 wrote:

The suspense is killing me. I can't wait for 3.16 patch notes.

I think it says something about GGG though because we really have no clue as to what is going to happen or even if it is tilted towards something.

What are you exactly waiting for here?

They already said their plans.. before the patch notes.. spoiler: it's literally the same stubborn direction.

"

Community_Team wrote:

although you should still expect the usual assortment of buffs and nerfs to specific skills.

In general, there are all sorts of mental gymnastics and ego at play at GGG.

I mean can you really hemorrhage half your player base, sacrificing nearly 3 years of player growth, and millions of dollars short of expected revenue, and still be "right" in your vision/direction?

Really the bottom line is then vast majority of your players dont run to the forums and reddit to bitch and moan about this or that. They simply log in, play the game, and if it fucking sucks, they dont play again.

At least some of these folks took the opportunity to voice their extreme displeasure with the changes and direction. While granted, the manner in which the feedback is delivered matters, (ie threatening and toxic harassment is BS) at least you have some gauge on what the issues are. As opposed to massive losses with little to no context or understanding.

I honestly think this was some humble pie that got served up, and I'm genuinely curious how the next few leagues will work. Are they still set in their overall direction, but now just terrified as to the reception? Will it be development eggshells from now on? Or will they really adapt, and with humility, admit perhaps they don't know exactly what's best, and dictating to players what they should enjoy is a losing proposition.

As it relates to this thread, I mentioned it a number of times. The contempt GGG has shown to the average player has finally manifested. Sure your streamers and whales might bootlick you the high heavens, I believe you will find the resulting wasteland there quite barren.

Perhaps that's what GGG prefers? Maybe the game actually got bigger than their development taste? Tbh I'm ok with that. Find your niche if that's what you want. But damn the anxiety of growing beyond expectations and comfort, only to have to slash employees and manage expectations to the new owners, is not an situation I'd care to be in.

Still all in all never getting a dime or support from me ever again. Its a fair play based on what GGG has dished out to the average player recently.

"

DarthSki44 wrote:

Really the bottom line is then vast majority of your players dont run to the forums and reddit to bitch and moan about this or that. They simply log in, play the game, and if it fucking sucks, they dont play again.

Two words, sire/ma'am: Big Data. No, three more: Data Driven Decisions. A concept which kills AAA gaming since... 2012... maybe earlier.

Roar of Reddit (or official forum or Steam Community if it's not entirely abandoned) crowd can be measured, segmented, etc, etc with enough effort from data gatherers (be it volunteers from Reddit moderation crew or Community Managers themselves). With inevitable mishaps and distortions in data die to it being gathered ma-nu-al-ly at scale so large.

People gather that data manually so nostalgie driven geeks at key positions can twist that data as they please to justify Vision(tm) they're about to implement anyway.

(remember! WE, the players, can't verify their statistics!)

The real catch? They're analyzing data about CONSEQUENCES. Not about CAUSES. Because analyzing CAUSES with data about CONSEQUENCES gathered MANUALLY in the fields full of absolutely incoherent and random data will take no less than century.

Reaching every player for a feedback sounds possible... on paper.

In real life, a person with needed degree AND experience in needed area is at hand seldom and is unnecessary afterwards. Without degree and experience, which is needed to compose proper survey files, which in return will focus on CAUSES instead of CONSEQUENCES, these surveys will... well... I'd assume that these will do more harm than good in absolutely unpredictable manner, as it did for WoT. And cash needed for such a project is needed elsewhere (cough... 2... cough...)

And that's only top of the iceberg. I had an intent to write an article or three about it (after all, 10 years of experience...) - but it'll gonna be:
1. Too much of a hassle for
2. Too few of a profit _for me_ (and too much of a profit for person which would gonna reuse my work).
(3. Enough pearls for this century. . .)

Why am I mentioning Big Data, etc? Because these concepts ARE being used as excuses for this intel freakshow. I feel it with my guts. Was used by different companies for decade - will be used for another decade by another companies. I can smell it.

P. S.

"

majority of your players dont run to the forums and reddit to bitch and moan about this or that

They are trying. Unfortunately, loyalist part of community is so delusional so a healthy discussion between different community parts is barely possible. Whatever useful (for developers) bits might appear, are being lost in loyalists' babbling.
And selective silencing policy, implemented by developers' representatives on this forum, also brought to our attention by Foreverhappychan, is not helping here either.

P. P. S.
Quite a swan song it is >_< IT does not deserve an epiphany that long, not just yet.

Ugh. You lumped the streamers in with the whales...again? I'm pretty sure I've dismantled this notion that we have anything significant in common elsewhere but let's stick to the specific context here.

Streamers and whales might "boot lick" (itself a grotesque simplification) but the cause and effect between the two is almost completely reversed. A whale (,and here I assume no overt p2w) likes what they see and becomes a supporter. If they are inclined to interact it'll almost certainly be in a positive light because of that initial like. So any sort of sycophancy stems from a decision that isn't inherently selfish. It might morph into something selfish (very likely might) but here's the point: whales don't need whatever they support to survive. For us it is all extra. And in that light it is surprisingly easy to remove the tongue from the leather. We have nothing to lose in doing so because chances are we've already lost before that.


The streamer on the other hand wields sycophancy like a tool. Whatever praise they heap upon their game of choice always has a chance of getting them a bit more exposure, a bit closer to the devs, thus more viewers... it's business. I'm not saying a streamer can't actually like it or be earnest in their praise but unless they are big enough to influence rather than be influenced, the reaction of the devs will always be part of the equation. I think that is slightly less trustworthy than the freely given and freely taken away whale's support. The underlying motivation is much more serious for a streamer.

Again. You might think this is nitpicking or off topic but I assure you it is only the former. And even then I am making a point that shouldn't be passed off as fickle or minor.

Because this is all about the relationship between streamers and the devs...and, in a lesser way, what whales can do about it. What minnows can do. Dolphins. All the other aquatic life metaphors. Whaling PoE is silly really. Some of my friends who knew about it asked what I got out of it. Was it an investment? Am I buying things in the game?

Like or not, what I got out of it was a voice loud enough to be heard (and sometimes a little too loud but you can always just mute Her I guess). In a way I tried to come at the streamer dev relationship backwards. Foolish I know. Buy an expensive fish from a dev and he'll eat a meal with you for a day; open a takeaway joint using his cheap fish and he'll be there with more flake for you for as long as you're open.

I dunno. I don't think I'm going to top that one, so...yeah. Later, Exiles. I'm off to eat some meat and vegies.