Streamer priority confirmed. PoE is free to play, so play it for free, but Boycott GGG.

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But we didn't; [Removed by Support]. Do you really feel like you're playing a game worth that much?

I don´t know why I have to repeat myself, but the answer is: Yes.

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Look past your enjoyment of it, and try to be objective.

When it comes down to games my personal enjoyment is literally the only relevant variable. I cannot argue about the enjoyment of others, hence there is no "objective" way to see it. As long as I have fun, the game does what it is supposed to do.

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Do you seriously look at Path of Exile, as it is now, and see a game that cost a conservative 25 USD million to make? Does it have anywhere near that sort of polish? (and this is also why we 'didn't' talk about it; I was being hypothetical)

I don´t know, as I am not a game- or software-developer myself and don´t know a thing how much stuff costs, as well as it is pretty clear that a brand-new game always looks more fancy than a game developed ages ago. Take League of Legends, I would not count that game visually impressive.

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But when you step back and consider how much money has gone into this game, it simply doesn't reflect it. And that's...not good.

Why though? It is still a fairly small company, so they cannot triple or quadrouple the work they put in it or redesign it from the get-go. And even if, that´s not what PoE is about for me. It is the most single complicated and advanced game I´ve ever played, I love the difficulty-level, I love the complexity and I am bored out of my mind from casual-friendly games like d3. Aside from that, I appreciate the ongoing work on it with huge content-upgrades every 3 months. Again, relating to D3: There is no new content for 5 years. And that´s why I feel fine donating some money into the further development of this game, it is really that simple for me.

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But it doesn't have to, because it's designed to be addictive and 'played forever'. [Removed by Support]

Every game caters to psychological effects like a sense of completion, escapism and so on. PoE is not a devilish, unique case for that so this comment doesn´t prove anything.

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

whats being achieved here?

For me, ideally, education. Not everyone is glued to reddit or this or that outlet to find out about this stuff. People need to know what happened, who it affected, and why it matters. Of course everyone can and will come to their own conclusions about the last bit, but one would hope that someone like 'moumout' who posted just a bit above would read the thread and have some consideration for streamers like DS Lily and others who weren't famous enough to make 'the club' who had their launch night streams wrecked at the expense of club members.

Or people who wanted to race for a top spot on the leaderboards but ended up 6-12 hours behind their competition because they weren't friends with the correct streamer.

Or the true commoner like me who was just amped to ride the roller coaster together with my friends and community - all of you - the PoE community. In the past we took it all on together, equally, or so I thought. The rough launches. The overtuned league mobs. The new ways to get one shot. The clawing up to the top of the end game after starting with nothing. The trade spam, the big item finds, the currency collection, the achievement hunting, the laughs, the crafts, the flips, the RIPs...all of it.

People not paying attention at league start deserved to hear the truth - not just Chris' pseudo apology. We normies paid GGG to package our money, deliver it to streamers, then prioritize those streamer's experiences over our own.

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innervation wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

whats being achieved here?

For me, ideally, education. Not everyone is glued to reddit or this or that outlet to find out about this stuff. People need to know what happened, who it affected, and why it matters. Of course everyone can and will come to their own conclusions about the last bit, but one would hope that someone like 'moumout' who posted just a bit above would read the thread and have some consideration for streamers like DS Lily and others who weren't famous enough to make 'the club' who had their launch night streams wrecked at the expense of club members.

Or people who wanted to race for a top spot on the leaderboards but ended up 6-12 hours behind their competition because they weren't friends with the correct streamer.

Or the true commoner like me who was just amped to ride the roller coaster together with my friends and community - all of you - the PoE community. In the past we took it all on together, equally, or so I thought. The rough launches. The overtuned league mobs. The new ways to get one shot. The clawing up to the top of the end game after starting with nothing. The trade spam, the big item finds, the currency collection, the achievement hunting, the laughs, the crafts, the flips, the RIPs...all of it.

People not paying attention at league start deserved to hear the truth - not just Chris' pseudo apology. We normies paid GGG to package our money, deliver it to streamers, then prioritize those streamer's experiences over our own.

Yeah, it's pretty sobering to know that in farming, for example, you have a lower chance of finding something good. Unfortunately, keeping that in mind completely destroys my motivation to play the game. How is trust ever supposed to flow back into a company after such an action?

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Tin_Foil_Hat wrote:

Streamers rigged the community designed MTX by brigading it when currency had the lead that Sharknado now has on it.

Oh, I didn't know this happened (and I kinda think I keep myself informed with the goings of this game). Probably most people don't know either.

But, honestly, I can't find fault with doing that. That is basically how I see politics: Charismatic people influencing (not ordering, mind you) the actions of similar minded people.

Why if, for whatever reason, they decided to vote for a certain MTX and they fulfil the criteria to do so, would be seen as something wrong? Are they not part of the community?

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Goauld wrote:

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innervation wrote:

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Snorkle_uk wrote:

whats being achieved here?

For me, ideally, education.

[.....]

Yeah, it's pretty sobering to know that in farming, for example, you have a lower chance of finding something good. Unfortunately, keeping that in mind completely destroys my motivation to play the game. How is trust ever supposed to flow back into a company after such an action?

bolding by me.

this is so sad, funny and unbelievable at the same time... yea, propaganda and misinformation works.

[Removed by Support]

I made a post to this thread but then it seemed to disappear? Am I mistaken perhaps?

Where was I? Oh yeah, explaining something I consider quite important.

I want to clarify something here: I don't name names or point fingers for one simple reason: I LIKE Zizaran. I like his style. I like his energy. One time on the alpha server we chatted for a good hour or so, and as a result I went and watched him, ZiggyD and a few others play a sort of Dungeons and Dragons adaptation of early Path of Exile. It was really entertaining! And as I recall, he was one of the first streamers to tell GGG to remove him from the streamer priority queue on launch day. I thought that showed a lot of integrity and respect for the game as it's meant to be played, not as a mere vehicle for his streaming revenue.

But let's also be clear: I think streaming-related revenue is why he's doing what he's doing. It might not be the only reason; it might not even be why he started streaming, but it's his job. That doesn't mean he or any other successful streamer can't be a nice person. Can't be admirable. Aren't working their butts off (I've said time and again people severely underestimate the effort that goes into becoming a successful streamer). It just means they're benefiting from a situation that isn't exactly great for others. Whether or not they'd care is another matter -- I'm sitting here, living in one of the nicest parts of a pretty nice country, with enough money in my bank account to feed thousands for years, and I 'care' but for the most part I don't. If we're being perfectly honest, for the most part I care more about what game I'm going to play. So absolutely I'd be a hypocrite if I accused these streamers of abusing privilege they take for granted without acknowledging my own. Our own -- let's not pretend I'm alone here in being possessed of resources that aren't put to their best use. Let's just not.

Which all boils down to this: I don't hate any PoE streamer. I think very highly of a few of them, and care very little about most.

(I've just caught up to the draft part where it cuts off, so I'm winging it now. Apologies if I've lost the flow. It happens.)

I think streamers and GGG's relationship to them, as a basic fact, catapulted PoE out of obscurity and into its deserved prominence, at least within the ARPG community. I don't think it was done in a particularly healthy way -- the whole thing has the scent of premature growth to it to me, but on the other hand, it's been a surprisingly quick 9 years in some ways. That aside, it was good for the game to be flooded with new supporters based around streamer-related exposure and promotion. Some of us, those considered the whales of beta, believed the game could survive purely on our ongoing support and without the sort of pressure that comes with a streamer fanbase-heavy playerbase. Clearly we were wrong.

But just as PoE outgrew its dependence on whales, whose function was largely in the nascent period, I think it could benefit from outgrowing its dependence on streamers. This is, obviously, a much harder teat to stop milking: unlike whales, streamers bring in a constant source of revenue injection. I think for a lot of games, getting big streamers attached to your game is the endgame. That's sustainability right there. But the cost is not insignificant, as this entire thread has noted time and again. At which point does the sound business decision to cradle lucrative streamers become favouritism on a toxic level that breeds resentment in the other 'children' (note: I am not calling Exiles 'children'; this is a metaphor)?

Worse, and I think this is what's happened here and will keep happening here: what happens when the situation of 'favoured children' and 'all the others' becomes normal and those who are passively mistreated adjust to it? What happens when those who still see how wrong it was are declared apostates and troublemakers...?

Well, if it's just other players doing that, fine. Even playing field, give or take.

If.

...I did apologise before about potentially losing the flow. And so I did...

ANYWAY.

In general terms, streamers want a good, working relationship with the devs of the game they're streaming. It just makes sense. And if that results in favourable treatment, eh, that also makes sense. Business and all that. The downside is that this relationship can become, well, problematic when or if the time comes to betray one's own code to maintain it. That's what happened here. We all know that. But it was a one-sided betrayal. Streamers, even those who didn't ask to be removed from the priority queue, were true to their own code and MO: provide entertaining content, collect and keep viewers, convert viewers into financial supporters. Give or take. There is nothing inherently wrong or reprehensible about that.

And just as it was GGG who broke their own rules to accommodate the situation they've put themselves in, it's GGG who can and perhaps should get themselves out of that situation. This resonates with the 'we'll never let that happen again' claim. The best and easiest way to do that is to reduce a reliance on streamers. Whether paid or not. To restore what I consider a healthier power balance: devs make and control the game, and everyone else, streamers included, react to that.

And if the result of this is the game dying, then it was never really about the game, was it?

Have a lovely day, Exiles. Talk to you soon. :)

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Foreverhappychan wrote:

Have a lovely day, Exiles. Talk to you soon. :)

Welcome back!

:) Thank you.

this accident happend over 2 months ago, why the f*** is this still a discussion?! GGG already appologized and clearyfied why it happend and that they will not do it again in the future.

shit happens and everyone makes a mistake so deal with it, maybe some mod close this?