I Miss Boem...

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

But I was, and am, really just calling for a little bit of perspective. This talk about dictators and justice systems and companies firing unionising workers and the like is really giving this whole thing an air of significance it absolutely does not deserve.

Perhaps as an isolated instance, but this is hardly an isolated instance. On this forum, Boem isn't the only one to have felt the sting of this regime. But more broadly, this isn't just a GGG thing - it's already the norm across online fora on the internet as a whole. So it really represents yet another cut that forms part of the death through a thousand cuts (to borrow a military phrase) of the open internet. Yes, Boem may seem a small thing, but he's very much part of a worrisome larger trend. One that such quiet acceptance allows to spread. And that isn't paranoia about a distant future - it's already here. And to clarify, I don't mean the specific code of conduct GGG uses, but the clamping down across the web with increasingly restrictive mods in general.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I don't have a problem with the moderators banning people who regularly break the rules because I don't think the community will be worse off for their absence.

Well that's an opinion. One, for what it's worth, that I disagree with. I do think this community has been impoverished by Boems' absence. He was easily one of the more erudite provocateurs on this forum. And more generally it has been impoverished by the self-censorship fates like his have engendered in everyone else as well. I mean, we couldn't even discuss a global pandemic last year, despite literally half a dozen threads started for that (including by GGG themselves) because it proved to be nigh impossible to converse about it without eventually falling foul of said rules (or some creative interpretation of them, such as banning 'economics' as well). And no, such talk isn't out of the scope of this forum just cos it's a gaming site. That's why Off-Topic exists, and why the longest running thread here isn't about games at all, but anime (and there's plenty of other threads on non-gaming subjects as well).

And the result for this forum is plain to see, I even made a post about it some time ago - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2823247

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So I decided to have a look through several pages of this place to see how well this forum is faring these days. Off-Topic is especially good at generating discussions over things people are passionate about, and it literally has the entire world as its potential subject matter (pretty much everything not connected to the game). So, wanna guess how many actually active threads there are on this forum nowadays i.e. threads that are ongoing (haven't been shuttered by GGG / still talking) and have 10+ pages of content?
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6. Six!

Mind you two of those six were pandemic threads that were later shut down. And the Wolcen thread has also been forgotten now. Since then we've added the D2R, Last Epoch and Other Games threads, so that leaves us at an even six. If you add this thread, I suppose that makes it seven, albeit the irony of doing so runs thick. And half of those threads are on other games, hinting at how much narrower the conversation has become that Off-Topic now is mostly used to talk about even more gaming. This place used to be a lot more lively, and varied.

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Exile009 wrote:

And no, such talk isn't out of the scope of this forum just cos it's a gaming site.

You're right, it's outside the scope of this forum because GGG says so.

It's not like there's a shortage of public discourse on, uh, the pandemic, or economics. It just isn't happening on this New Zealand videogame studio's website. That's okay.

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Exile009 wrote:

Perhaps as an isolated instance, but this is hardly an isolated instance. On this forum, Boem isn't the only one to have felt the sting of this regime. But more broadly, this isn't just a GGG thing - it's already the norm across online fora on the internet as a whole. So it really represents yet another cut that forms part of the death through a thousand cuts (to borrow a military phrase) of the open internet. Yes, Boem may seem a small thing, but he's very much part of a worrisome larger trend. One that such quiet acceptance allows to spread. And that isn't paranoia about a distant future - it's already here. And to clarify, I don't mean the specific code of conduct GGG uses, but the clamping down across the web with increasingly restrictive mods in general.

Mind you two of those six were pandemic threads that were later shut down. And the Wolcen thread has also been forgotten now. Since then we've added the D2R, Last Epoch and Other Games threads, so that leaves us at an even six. If you add this thread, I suppose that makes it seven, albeit the irony of doing so runs thick. And half of those threads are on other games, hinting at how much narrower the conversation has become that Off-Topic now is mostly used to talk about even more gaming. This place used to be a lot more lively, and varied.

We don't live in a one-size-fits-all world. Maybe it is time people learn to abide by a different set of rules and the world is a complicated place. You are not always protected by the laws of your country of residence. [Removed by Support] Have fun with your comfort zone shrinking. You will get used to it.

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awesome999 wrote:

We don't live in a one-size-fits-all world. Maybe it is time people learn to abide by a different set of rules and the world is a complicated place. You are not always protected by the laws of your country of residence. [Removed by Support] Have fun with your comfort zone shrinking. You will get used to it.

Bruh, at this point I'm wondering if you come from...a certain country that's very controversial off late. You certainly give off that air. And no, that norm spreading is controversial with many, which is why (among other things) said places arouse such antagonism. Ppl aren't quietly going into the night.

And US media companies don't argue for the restrictions this place operates under. They sometimes argue for restrictions on hurtful speech, which I already dealt with in my earlier replies to you. So that is yet another pointless point.

In any case, this place isn't being handled by the laws of any country, not even its country of origin NZ. Cos NZ law doesn't specify GGG's Code of Conduct, that's entirely on GGG themselves. So your argument is moot. Indeed your entire series of govt. comparisons is moot, as that isn't what's happening here. If GGG wanted to change their CoC, they're at liberty to do so. Indeed they already have before, to the form we see at present. Whatever instructions their mods operate under is also at their discretion. So bringing in courts and govts. and all that was irrelevant. That was never the reason this place is as it is. As I said before, we don't govern online fora as we do real life. Almost all of their governance isn't even done by govts. at all.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

And no, such talk isn't out of the scope of this forum just cos it's a gaming site.

You're right, it's outside the scope of this forum because GGG says so.

It's not like there's a shortage of public discourse on, uh, the pandemic, or economics. It just isn't happening on this New Zealand videogame studio's website. That's okay.

"because GGG says so" - indeed, which circles right back to my dictatorial point above. And great job minimizing things once again. But all that shows is that there isn't a fundamental counterargument here - you're just content to go along with it. So be it. Others are not however, and you haven't provided a convincing argument for why they should be, because your claim is fundamentally subjective i.e. you just don't feel it's a big deal. Others feel differently.

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Turtledove wrote:

Okay pour the vitriol on me as well then.

If you consider this vitriol, I don't know what to tell you. I'm just countering the arguments as they're made. And no, it's never been my claim that Boem was some kind of paragon of humanity, so your opinion of him will find no objection from me (whether I agree with it or not). As for Boem being better off this way, maybe. I don't know. But that doesn't really have any bearing here. The issue is the mod regime he's been punished by. Boem may indeed be better off this way, but that doesn't change that this shouldn't have happened. Much like some others have asked GGG to remove their ability to buy mystery boxes, if Boem needed to 'detox', he could've similarly asked the mods to do that. His perspective would still be missed ofc, but at least we'd know it was on their terms rather than (imo) unjustly forced upon them.

It's worth noting that there are already examples of other forum denizens who've removed their accounts. Indeed I made another past thread asking about one of them when I noticed them gone - https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2829746

You'll find I didn't dismiss their decision. Altna seemingly chose to leave us behind and I've no objections to that. But that isn't like Boems' case at all. And Boem isn't the only one - everyone here is affected by the system that Boem has been banished by. He isn't even the only one who's been perma-banned either.

I solved the mystery. Boem is Obviously Al_GGG. Say hi to him for me.

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Exile009 wrote:

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

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Exile009 wrote:

And no, such talk isn't out of the scope of this forum just cos it's a gaming site.

You're right, it's outside the scope of this forum because GGG says so.

It's not like there's a shortage of public discourse on, uh, the pandemic, or economics. It just isn't happening on this New Zealand videogame studio's website. That's okay.

"because GGG says so" - indeed, which circles right back to my dictatorial point above. And great job minimizing things once again. But all that shows is that there isn't a fundamental counterargument here - you're just content to go along with it. So be it. Others are not however, and you haven't provided a convincing argument for why they should be, because your claim is fundamentally subjective i.e. you just don't feel it's a big deal. Others feel differently.

Well yeah, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, that would be a terrible waste of all our time. You've been bumping this thread for a year and a half, it's abundantly clear that you feel differently.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

Well yeah, I'm not trying to convince you of anything, that would be a terrible waste of all our time. You've been bumping this thread for a year and a half, it's abundantly clear that you feel differently.

I am more convinced he is Boem's Secert Agent. Secert Agent 009.