Skill Rework - Ice Nova and Vortex

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Draegnarrr wrote:

Also don't get all the hate for ED/Contagion, contagion has a super fast cast point and is a free trigger for arcane surge the fact you have to cast it really doesn't cost you anything, it also makes ED about the easiest and cheapest screen clearing skill in the game. Sometimes multiple screens even depending on mob density.

Did nobody try it in delve? It was hilarious you could run the entire way with your first ED killing everything as you jog along.

Its actually what I'm using now. Sort of. I haven't committed to a specific skill yet, so I'm using Blight, ED and Contagion.
Can't stand still in Delve, so I use Contagion/ED blasts while running. Haven't got to the 4 link everything stage yet, so it isn't as powerful as it could be.

I suspect ED/Contagion hate is caused by it being a really good combo, but not the easiest to set up (projectile and AoE? There are no passives/supports/boosts of any kind that do both). It also means that if you are using 1 of those skills without the other, it looks substandard. This is why I asked "why can't Contagion just spread any Chaos debuff?", then you could use it with something else and not feel substandard.

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TheGoodBadWeird wrote:

Ice Nova now got another weird interaction with Frostbolt? Why?

Because this interaction was there for years. Yes, it was THAT unusable that everyone forgot about it.

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Since the AOE- and double-dipping nerfs Vortex was pretty much dead. Even with all the AOE-nodes + AOE Support Gem on the tree it has a ridiculous low area. The problem of this skill is range and damage on its own.

So they increased damage and increased the AOE of the dot. If you are not interested in the dot, use Ice-Nova.

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With the cooldown you practically kill the last bit out of the skill.

You can reduce the cooldown of the skill. note: it is instant now. nothing, except cooldown prevents you from spamming it. Not even casting ice-nova. I think this makes vortex a very versatile skill and makes it much more different from ice-nova (honestly, if you didn't care about the dot before, except raw damage numbers there was no difference between the two).

I would like to see a support gem that lets you cast ice and shock nova where your mouse pointer is.

These changes while interesting are not useful.

How many skills with CDs are regularly used? How many people utilized those previous interactions between skills?

My answer to both questions is low for both and this will be the fate of these newly reworked skills. Skills with cooldown do not belong to PoE. Complicated interactions requiring precise positioning and timing are too unwieldy for PoE.

Why would anyone use two skills to achieve something that can be done by different single skills?

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UlfgardLeo wrote:

Because this interaction was there for years. Yes, it was THAT unusable that everyone forgot about it.

The interaction was stupid from the very beginning. Looked nice on paper, but players noticed how bad it was in actual gameplay. The skill interaction has not been forgotten. The playerbase actually loathes the entire mechanic and doesn't touch it with a 10-feet pole.

Those reworks will not change this in any way!

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UlfgardLeo wrote:

So they increased damage and increased the AOE of the dot. If you are not interested in the dot, use Ice-Nova.

You may not get this, but the numbers have to go way up to make Vortex viable as a main skill.

Ice-Nova is not the way to go either. Nobody outside of some broken Poet'S Pen Yolo builds want to be in melee attack range of rippy mobs. If you desperately want to play an ice skill, why not use Ice Shot instead? It is way more usable and safer than Ice-Nova for sure.

And for the melee crowd there is still Ice-Crash. Let's not forget the dreaded Glacial Hammer ... which funnily is easier to set up than the strange SKill + Frostbolt combo. Just shows how bad those reworks actually are.

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UlfgardLeo wrote:

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TheGoodBadWeird wrote:

With the cooldown you practically kill the last bit out of the skill.

You can reduce the cooldown of the skill. note: it is instant now. nothing, except cooldown prevents you from spamming it. Not even casting ice-nova. I think this makes vortex a very versatile skill and makes it much more different from ice-nova (honestly, if you didn't care about the dot before, except raw damage numbers there was no difference between the two).

It already told about problems with cooldowns regarding my 3.4 experince with Righteous Fire Totems. it is just bad and feels worse than ever. Cooldowns kill all the fun. Look how much trouble and unfun a high cooldown on earthquake is. Feels horrible at the start!

DoTs are pretty much dead in current meta. After GGG buffed and nerfed Vaal skills in 3.3 and 3.4 nobody has them in "favorite skill" list. I therefore doubt they will be meta unless GGG buffs the numbers through the roof. Otherwise there is no way they can even remotely compete with other crit-based spells.

Both Ice-Nova and Vortex need a complete new concept. By the current information they won't do that good in patch 3.5+.

What about not synergie skill between them but add new jewel ?

like

unique name (vortex version)

limited to 1

10-15% increase cold dmg
with 40 intel in radius frostbolt has a xx% (35-50) to detonate in Vortex (same lvl of frostbolt) when reaching an ennemi.
vortex created by this way got 30% less duration (and/or aera effect).


(same)unique name (Ice nova version)

limited to 1

10-15% increase cold dmg
with 40 intel in radius frostbolt has a xx% (35-50) to detonate in Ice Nova (same lvl of frostbolt) when reaching an ennemi.
Ice Nova created by this way do not benefit from chilled effect for dmg (and/or aera effect).


like this, new modable way for frostbolt and feels less cluncky to use...

I like the changes but any time you make a 2-gem synergy in a meta that includes Poet's Pen, you're just buffing poet's pen.

Base cast speed needs some fucking dramatic overhauls for everything except "fire spells that you expect to be used just for ignite". Selfcast deserves to be a viable meta.

Need a video to see concretely how that will be ... not a big fan of the skill's dependencies though.


Please don't kill Vaal Ice nova (without frostbolts), because it can already be really good.

NICE!... but we need fix sao pablo server... really, we need this now =/

Could we see some love to Arctic Breath? I love this skill, but its just so outdated at this point...