{3.10} Speaker for the Dead | The Mass Minion Summoner | League Starter, Leveling Guide 💀

@futurefear

I'll take you up on your offer to answer questions on your set up.

First, it's great to see someone using channeled cyclone-arc. I am using a self cast arc in a trap set as a levelling aid so I've been wondering how it does with cyclone compared to ball lightning or other things being used in this build. I wondered if the branching would allow even more of the pack to get EE'd while clone-ing through. If Hercanic or others have discussed it, if anyone can guide me to the posts I'd appreciate the help.

Second, why do you use spell echo with Arc? I thought it couldn't support channeled skills

Thanks for any insight you and the group can offer on the arc vs other channeling options

I'm trying to pick this build up on the fly as I respec out of an SRS build I started with. It is a lot to learn (first time necro build in any game) but it is great to see so many knowledgeable people sharing their experience. Thanks a thousand times over to Herc for the patient and scholarly explanations behind his recommendations and his advice to others on their build choices.

sorry for the TLDR. Brevity is not my strong point


Last edited by ona_velzy on Sep 13, 2019, 1:33:37 PM
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igp_0wn3d wrote:
Hey guys,
can someone give me a quick tipp how to craft the ES -6 link?

vaal Regalia 6 link ilvl84 and then with fossils? Which fossils would you combine?

Appreciate your support.

PS. Awesome awesome guide!


ilvl 86, not 84.
And which fossils? Dense + prismatic?
@ FutureFear:
Full Posts
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FutureFear wrote:
full post
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RegulusNorth wrote:
Interesting setup. I dropped Siegebreaker after running a few dozen maps with it because it felt like dead weight. The ground effect wasn't helpful enough to warrant an otherwise-weak belt, I felt.

Are you running an Unending Hunger? I feel like that made all the difference in Fire-raisers surpassing Solar Guards, for me. The Solar Guard laser really holds them back.

I'd like to try the Triad Grip variant, but I bought a Grip of the Council a few days ago and it'd be a waste of exalt to consider replacing it right now. It certainly seems interesting.

I just managed to get my hands on a Glorious Vanity as well as an ES on hit Watcher's Eye... the Glorious Vanity forced me to spec out of the hybrid wheel to the right of our starting zone, so I had to move those points somewhere else as a compromise. Corrupted Soul is nice, but honestly... I don't know if I like it when I have ES on hit from the Watcher's Eye. It feels like it's making me more squishy, not less. Maybe I skipped over something and we're not supposed to run both.

Fortress Covenant is still a pretty heavy lifter for my damage. Right now I'm worried less about improving the already insane clearspeed of this build and worried more about improving my survivability. Popping VSS has a tendency to get me killed.



I can understand the siegebreaker part, caustic ground won't kill on itself but all the extra combined damage output could result in a faster clear speed overall. but it's certainly not the best belt DPS wise, the taunt on the other hand is quite nice, it means I can focus on other stats on ghastly eye jewels...

And yes i'm using unending hunger, bought one with my first exalted... I'v played this for 3 leagues now and it does make some difference, with or without. I could try again with fire-raiser and my current setup, both are fire.

I also have grip of the council somewhere, it's nice for the cold damage, and most effective with frost sentinals ofcourse, sadly triad grips only convert physical and most "good" spectres use elemental/spell damage so not usefull there. -> that's why i want a Vis Mortis for spectres.

I think that the glorious Vanaity trade with the "hybrid wheel" was your downfall for getting the most out of our build. I took the liberty to check your character and tree to see what your glorious vanaity would give but it doesn't seem to do anything usefull?

I don't have a watcher's eye (yet) I also feel I don't actually need one with bone armour as "extra potion". Still In the current setup (without Glorious Vanity) it can only add to the survivability of the build I guess.

I didn't test fortress covenant yet but I'm pritty sure that minions take 20% extra damage is also killing you because we share our minion damage with ourselves thanks to spiritual aid. Yes this does count for ALL minion damage & reductions!
Note that it also says ALL notable passives in radius converted -> more notables = more " extra damage taken" 20-40-60...seems like a suicide jewel for our build.

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FutureFear wrote:
@everyone

For those interested a roundup of some testing with different gear, skills, and a few suggestion for Hercanic to consider to add to the build.

Reached level 92 with some casual leveling on maps, delve,etc.

my gear


Choas & fire damage for the win I'd say with my current setup.

Using "Severed in sleep" with chance to poison + triad grips with 4 white sockets(100% physical converted to choas) and siegebreaker for taunt on hit + caustic ground on death seems to scale quite nice. Especially with spirit offering that gives even more choas damage. Together with mark of submission and despair curse makes it complete.

I could possible scale it even more with a Vis Mortis armour to get extra chaos damage for minions from elemental damage for my spectres & skeleton mages.

It seems to work quite wel so far in red tier maps, shaper & "uber" elder test will follow.

I'm still using the Elemental equilibrium despite it not doing anything for chaos damage, I'm using it for solar gaurds spectres wich somehow seem to have the best clear speed. I'v tested the "best": frost sentinals, slavedrivers, fire-raiser even went for chaos damaging ones like undying alchemist, deadeye,...

Solar guards came out on top for balancing attack speed & damage.

Change in skill setup for OP solar guards:

Shield:
- Hatred becomes anger

Armor:
- controled destruction becomes elemental army
- faster projectiles becomes spell echo

Delve is just like just 1,2,3,5 next...
Mapping is more like I'm borred as hell what am I doing here standing still getting no damage on a blight in red tier maps!

@Hercanic:
suggestions
I'v noticed you've skipped the Enduring bond node in the tree, why? It is quite usefull to spec to, considering it makes (vaal) skeletons up time 43.2 seconds long, and is a large damage boost. I'v traded some health nodes for it, to keep the bonus from our jewels alive. With energy shield & our OP bone armour buff on a potion slot we don't need all 6K health, it's nice sure but the best defense is offense I guess?
It's only 5 points!

My other suggestion is to check my chaos damage variant of your build ofcourse, would it be worthwile, I can't seem to figure it out in POB; because it doesn't allow me to fully check if it's a viable choice because of some stats that don't add/calculate.

If it turns out to be viable I might create a new build guide for it, but a more experienced eye like yours is always welcome if you're willing that is.
Credits where credits are due ofcourse.



Suggestions, help, questions are always welcome.
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I also have grip of the council somewhere, it's nice for the cold damage, and most effective with frost sentinals ofcourse

Grip of the Council has no effect on Frost Sentinels. It does help further incentivize scaling cold damage, such as equalizing Frostbite over Vulnerability, which would then benefit Frost Sentinels.


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I took the liberty to check your character and tree to see what your glorious vanaity would give but it doesn't seem to do anything usefull?

The web viewer will not show what Historic Jewels do, because the jewels operate using a secret algorithm that the website isn't privvy to.


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I didn't test fortress covenant yet but I'm pritty sure that minions take 20% extra damage is also killing you because we share our minion damage with ourselves thanks to spiritual aid. Yes this does count for ALL minion damage & reductions!

This is incorrect. "Minions take 20% increased Damage" is completely different from "Minion Damage".

Spiritual Aid means "10% increased Minion Damage" and "10% reduced Minion Damage" apply to you as generic damage modifiers to the damage YOU deal, not what ENEMIES deal (damage you TAKE).

You're confusing the fact that it has the word "Minion" in it. Take that away for a moment and look again: "take 20% increased Damage". It doesn't say "Minion Damage", just "Damage". Because monsters don't deal Minion Damage.


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Note that it also says ALL notable passives in radius converted -> more notables = more " extra damage taken" 20-40-60...seems like a suicide jewel for our build.

The notables only apply if you have allocated them. As long as you use a jewel socket where you've taken no notables within the jewel's radius, then there's no downside to the jewel.


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Choas & fire damage for the win I'd say with my current setup.

I mentioned this before, but if you're going Chaos then you really want to work in the wither debuff. It stacks up to 90% increased Chaos damage taken, roughly equivalent to 90% MORE damage. The easiest way would be to put Withering Touch Support on Zombies.


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Hatred becomes anger

Anger is really good on something like the Carrion Golem, since it has a very low base damage but a lot of damage multipliers that will also affect Anger's flat damage.

However, all our other minions have very high base damage. Compared to Hatred, Anger is worth:

Solar Guards = 8% more damage vs. 0% for Hatred
Phantasms = 18% vs. 53%
Skeletons = 18% vs. 53%
Zombies = 17% vs. 53%
Carrion Golem = 59% vs. 53%

So you're trading a lot of Skeleton/Zombie/Phantasm damage for a little bit of Solar Guard damage, while the Carrion Golem breaks even either way.

Keep in mind, this build originally used Hatred even before it affected Frost Sentinels.


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I'v noticed you've skipped the Enduring bond node in the tree, why? It is quite usefull to spec to, considering it makes (vaal) skeletons up time 43.2 seconds long, and is a large damage boost.

It costs 5 points, and is worth around 2.5% more damage per point (if you've used a minion skill recently, which is a pain). It's a nice cluster, but expensive, and it doesn't offer us anything unique, defensive, or necessary.

Enduring Bond is worth 9.2 more seconds for Vaal Skeletons, who otherwise last 34 seconds without it. It's nice, but if you're in a defensive situation, like Blight, you'll generally make back the souls before the first batch expires anyway. Most bosses, including Guardians, shouldn't last longer than 10 seconds, let along 34. As for Uber Elder, I'd personally prefer more defenses.


"
With energy shield & our OP bone armour buff on a potion slot we don't need all 6K health, it's nice sure but the best defense is offense I guess?

Even with infinite damage, there are still On-Death effects, delayed and lingering effects, ground degens, and all sorts of other things meant to test your defenses. Auras on Rare monsters, map mods, these sorts of things can stack up and deal frightening amounts of damage. PoE is a game where defenses are extremely important, especially in the hardest encounters.

This league mechanic is relatively safe due to most monsters not targeting us so long as we don't block their path. So you could probably get away with less defenses, but for all other content, especially future league content, I would always recommend more personal defenses. GGG is constantly at work thinking of new ways to kill us, after all.




@ RegulusNorth:
Full Post
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RegulusNorth wrote:
Interesting setup. I dropped Siegebreaker after running a few dozen maps with it because it felt like dead weight. The ground effect wasn't helpful enough to warrant an otherwise-weak belt, I felt.

Are you running an Unending Hunger? I feel like that made all the difference in Fire-raisers surpassing Solar Guards, for me. The Solar Guard laser really holds them back.

I'd like to try the Triad Grip variant, but I bought a Grip of the Council a few days ago and it'd be a waste of exalt to consider replacing it right now. It certainly seems interesting.

I just managed to get my hands on a Glorious Vanity as well as an ES on hit Watcher's Eye... the Glorious Vanity forced me to spec out of the hybrid wheel to the right of our starting zone, so I had to move those points somewhere else as a compromise. Corrupted Soul is nice, but honestly... I don't know if I like it when I have ES on hit from the Watcher's Eye. It feels like it's making me more squishy, not less. Maybe I skipped over something and we're not supposed to run both.

Fortress Covenant is still a pretty heavy lifter for my damage. Right now I'm worried less about improving the already insane clearspeed of this build and worried more about improving my survivability. Popping VSS has a tendency to get me killed.
"
I'd like to try the Triad Grip variant, but I bought a Grip of the Council a few days ago and it'd be a waste of exalt

You might be able to resell it for what you paid, but looking at poe.ninja it would seem the price is starting to drop.


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Corrupted Soul is nice, but honestly... I don't know if I like it when I have ES on hit from the Watcher's Eye. It feels like it's making me more squishy, not less.

What made the damage split really good before was that it kept ES from depleting and allowed both Life and ES recovery, like Gains on Hit, to work simultaneously. 30 ES on Hit + 15 or 30 Life on Spell Hit with Ball Lightning = up to 60 recovery per hit. @7 hits = 420 recovery * 2.86 Balls per second = 1200 recovery per second per target.

Spirit Offering could only guarantee us 5% Extra ES, compared to 15% now. By making ES only take half damage, instead of bearing the full brunt, 5% became comparable to 10% without the damage split, in terms of maintaining our ES pool. As long as we had ES, our Life would only take half damage.

With the huge buff to Spirit Offering and the relocation of Death Attunement preventing us from utilizing Minion Instability for Corrupted Soul, I'd say Glorious Vanity is no longer worth it for us, especially at its current price of 2ex.




@ haitike:
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haitike wrote:
I was thinking about getting Arakaali's fang now that it is 1,8 exhalts (it was 3,2 a week ago) and add it to this build for more dps (it is only 3 sockets).

In adittion to manually creating the spiders when they expire with the The Writhing Jar, do you know a cheap/easy way to autogenerate spiders when my summons kill enemies? Maube some kind of degen setup so I get the kills. But I don't know if a poison jewel in Ball lightning will be enough.

Edit: Should I get the new node "enduring bond" circle for extra duration or it is not worth it to waste 5 points?
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In adittion to manually creating the spiders when they expire with the The Writhing Jar, do you know a cheap/easy way to autogenerate spiders

1. Cull - support gem, weapon corruption, Kingmaker AG.
2. Degen kills - Ignite (fire crit/Combustion Support), Proliferated Ignite (Elemental Proliferation Support/Ignite Proliferation Support), Burn (Infernal Legion Support), Poison (Severed in Sleep sword), Decay Support, Caustic Ground (Siegebreaker belt), Spectres that have a degen like Wickermen, Kitava's Heralds, Knitted Horrors, or Maligaro's Passion.
3. Damage - L20 Ball Lightning in non-reflect maps, L20 Soulrend in reflect maps (w/ added ele damage to spells, from jewel or another source, for EE).


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Should I get the new node "enduring bond" circle for extra duration or it is not worth it to waste 5 points?

Duration for Arakaali's Fang is mainly important for long boss fights where you might run out of flask charges. Aside from that, it's mostly for convenience. Up to you. I know I don't like having to re-raise Spiders all the time, so I'd take duration.




@ Naadirius:
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Naadirius wrote:
I don't know how to link my Items, so maybe can you take a look at my gear and give some tipps?

I got an WE with ES on Hit and gain PD as extra LD so i'm using wrath now, and kinetic blast do some FD, so I hope it will proc EE than....so much stuff to read here.....what is the better choice SPell Echo and EA or CD and Summon P?
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I got an WE with ES on Hit and gain PD as extra LD so i'm using wrath now, and kinetic blast do some FD, so I hope it will proc EE than

The Extra Lightning from the Watcher's Eye only applies to you, not your minions. Meaning your Kinetic Blast is dealing Lightning Damage, causing monsters to be resistant to Lightning Damage and spoiling the Wrath aura damage on your minions.


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what is the better choice SPell Echo and EA or CD and Summon P?

Phantasms are better when you do not have Unending Hunger. If you do, then infinite cast speed from Soul Eater will push Spectres ahead.




@ Xenobite:
Full Post
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Xenobite wrote:
@Hercanic
Hi! What's your suggestions on Faster Projectiles green gem replacement for Raise Spectre on Blighted maps? As we can see, there are tons of monster with insanely high total HP pool there, so replacing Faster Projectiles with something wich gives us more area or direct damage seems reasonable.

PS: buff towers with 2 rings for them are OP for summoners. Pairing them with summoner towers might be nice, but more summons means more client crashes for us :( My hopes are on next week's patch.
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Faster Projectiles green gem replacement for Raise Spectre on Blighted maps?

Which Spectre? Are you using Phantasms? Skitterbots? Tabula Rasa, or are your colors set?

Skitterbots: Chill aura = Guaranteed chill on focused target = Hypothermia is an option for more damage

Phantasms: Projectile fades out = Range dependent on Faster Proj

Frost Sentinels, if socket color limited to Green: Pierce, if not using Projectile Weakness/Phantasms; gives damage and ensures most if not all targets over its entire area are hit. I also plan to experiment with Chain, as it received a targeting improvement this patch. Cold Penetration = Decent damage, especially if you haven't hit with EE yet. You can also increase damage by swapping GMP for LMP or Volley.

Frost Sentinels, if any socket color: Elemental Army = 42% more damage, 10% Cold Exposure to boost other minions. Spell Echo = 53% more DPS but locked in place for two casts. Elemental Focus = 49% more Elemental Damage, but lose chill/freeze. Deathmark = 55% more damage against Marked target, but only 25% versus everything else. Feeding Frenzy = 47% more, due to buff, if they are the only minions with this support; otherwise it's 24% more damage since you're already getting the buff from another minion; also causes them to aggressively target without any input from you.

Other Spectres: Depends what you're using.




@ ona_velzy:
Full Post
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ona_velzy wrote:
@futurefear

I'll take you up on your offer to answer questions on your set up.

First, it's great to see someone using channeled cyclone-arc. I am using a self cast arc in a trap set as a levelling aid so I've been wondering how it does with cyclone compared to ball lightning or other things being used in this build. I wondered if the branching would allow even more of the pack to get EE'd while clone-ing through. If Hercanic or others have discussed it, if anyone can guide me to the posts I'd appreciate the help.

Second, why do you use spell echo with Arc? I thought it couldn't support channeled skills

Thanks for any insight you and the group can offer on the arc vs other channeling options

I'm trying to pick this build up on the fly as I respec out of an SRS build I started with. It is a lot to learn (first time necro build in any game) but it is great to see so many knowledgeable people sharing their experience. Thanks a thousand times over to Herc for the patient and scholarly explanations behind his recommendations and his advice to others on their build choices.

sorry for the TLDR. Brevity is not my strong point
"
channeled cyclone-arc

It'll be convenient, because no aiming is necessary. It can hit up to 16 targets per cast, or curl back for 16 hits with at least four targets, and hits instantly. Far less hits than Ball Lightning, but no travel time.

Its downside is it'll only hit a solitary target once per 0.35 sec cast, so it's not at all good for generating Frenzy Charges against a boss.


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spell echo with Arc? I thought it couldn't support channeled skills

Yep, you are correct. Spell Echo cannot support triggered spells. I mentioned this before, but FutureFear may have missed it.

You can check to see what is supporting an ability by the tiny letter icons that appear in the top righthand corner of the skill's icon. By adding and removing Spell Echo, you can watch the Arc icon (should be grayed-out due to CwC support) to check whether Spell Echo is applying to the skill. If nothing changes, that means the skill is not supportable by that support gem.
Last edited by Hercanic on Sep 13, 2019, 5:38:48 PM
Hi, i just reached level 68 following the guide, and it was awesome. But now i feel kinda lost, there are so many spectres, build option that i don't know where to start. Anyone can recommend me where to look on the guide, to start off ? its my first time playing necro, and i don't really know what im doing so far
@futurefear



I didn't realize you were the person who also discussed key binding the bone barrier to a flask key. that would be a great thing for me. i've played around a bit in the input tab but I am dense or something because I'm not getting it. Could you clue me into how to make that key bind? a link to a post elsewhere would be fine. Thanks

sorry for the double post with this question but Herc had linked to my original so I didn't want to edit in another question.
Can anyone explain why we need the "Purifying flame" in gloves?
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Asland3 wrote:
Can anyone explain why we need the "Purifying flame" in gloves?


For hp regen from consecrated ground i think , i kind of replaced it with carrion golem just because i felt like it was unneeded
@ Ona_velzy
full post

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ona_velzy wrote:

@futurefear

I'll take you up on your offer to answer questions on your set up.

First, it's great to see someone using channeled cyclone-arc. I am using a self cast arc in a trap set as a levelling aid so I've been wondering how it does with cyclone compared to ball lightning or other things being used in this build. I wondered if the branching would allow even more of the pack to get EE'd while clone-ing through. If Hercanic or others have discussed it, if anyone can guide me to the posts I'd appreciate the help.

Second, why do you use spell echo with Arc? I thought it couldn't support channeled skills

Thanks for any insight you and the group can offer on the arc vs other channeling options

I'm trying to pick this build up on the fly as I respec out of an SRS build I started with. It is a lot to learn (first time necro build in any game) but it is great to see so many knowledgeable people sharing their experience. Thanks a thousand times over to Herc for the patient and scholarly explanations behind his recommendations and his advice to others on their build choices.

sorry for the TLDR. Brevity is not my strong point


"
ona_velzy wrote:

@futurefear

I didn't realize you were the person who also discussed key binding the bone barrier to a flask key. that would be a great thing for me. i've played around a bit in the input tab but I am dense or something because I'm not getting it. Could you clue me into how to make that key bind? a link to a post elsewhere would be fine. Thanks

sorry for the double post with this question but Herc had linked to my original so I didn't want to edit in another question.



It seems I can't read anymore lolz and need to rethink how to make the best setup with arc-cyclone- cwc and something?
I'm sorry for those who I mis guided!!

Edit: changed spell echo for elemental proliferation- freeze,ignite & shock... to squize out even more dps!

Flasked bone armour:

To change bone armour's keybind check out your options, input, change any of the 5 "use flask" slots to something else then change the right "use bound skill" input (for me number 10) to the old flask slot keybind. you can check the keybinds at the bottom left corner of your skills to see if it's ok.
(hope this helps, sounds more complex then it actually is)
Last edited by FutureFear on Sep 13, 2019, 2:38:35 PM
Trying out this build in HC now, seems good so far, just on T3 maps, but playing it safe (Im usually a SC player.). Trying to save up for a 6 link.

BUT this whole guide, the links to the leveling guide that is out of date, or completely different than the build and pob lvling skill points.
Hard to navigate the guide and find the answers.
Would be best to either remake the guide in a new post, or edit the first post, and maybe include some gear progressions.
Make different sections on different setups.
Everything to me seems so chaotic, specially the leveling section.
It just says what gems to get, not the actual links. have to navigate 2-3 different places to understand the links and lvling stuff.
Ive NEVER played with minions before so might be why things are a bit confusing.

I'm enjoying the build tho :)

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