Aaron Ciccheli who owns 7.5% of GGG, owns two RMT websites that sell POE items.

wow

Well, its Chris business and he will have to live with whatever choices he makes (good or bad), not you. Live your own lives and dont dip your fingers in other people crap.

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galuf wrote:

Gaming industry does quite poorly ethics wise, it's not the end of the world, worst case GGG is on par.

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walentaz wrote:

That was from general consumer - company perspective. Now a bit from my own player perspective. Does it affect me? - probably not, I don't play that much and on the level where it would affect me or my enjoyment. Am I ok with this and cheap PR response? - hell no... But the industry is damn rotten and no matter how you look at it - GGG overall is still on the better side it. Where I'm going with that? Well - this game playerbase is very supportive, some people supported the game with hundreds and thousands of dollars - I think GGG owns a better response and explanation to such infamous and shameful information -that's it.

only poor and rotten here is you guys "sense of morals".
Video-Games-Industry. Ethics. what the actual f*ck?
go into your kitchen right now. take a look at whats in your refrigerator. reflect on how ethical its content and the production-chain and economics in general behind those NECCESARY products are. if they are even neccesary, but thats another point.
same with your closet.

do you NEED to play videogames on the same existential level as you absolutely require food, housing and clothes to function as a human being? no, so seriously st*u about bringing in "morals".

are there people working in the videogame-industry for minimum (or even below) payment, overhours, in exotic countries to dodge the entitledment of western citizens and the laws that protect them, people who have no other choice but working in this sector, inhumane and exploitative conditions in general? no. anyone who works in gaming-industry has hit it quite nicely. its like f*cking supporting a "screenwrites-strike" and lamenting on the harsh working-conditions that these fine human beings must cope with, oh no.


stop trying to act smart ans critical and in the same moment turning videogames into something "poltical" or "ethically relevant". you are so far off on both points.
only thing this exposes is how little actual moral sense you have, when you aim for such an easy target.

people like you are the reason why i hate myself for somehow ending up supporting gamergate.....

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Heli0nix wrote:

RMT are destroying ingame economies in all games since ages and the only thing that could offer a solution known as law, doesn't exist.

sure...thats why diablo2 was still popular when everybody had dupes and wallhack...same with WoW (i have no problem admitting that my guild sold gladiator, achievments and loot for real money, i actually ebayed two characters for hillarious moneys).
the only people who are getting screwed over by rmt is actually the "customer", as they are robbing themselves of the fun of actively playing the game.
whats more satisfying: finally being able to kill the shaper and then, at last, finally seeing a starforge drop......or just paying for it like its any generic commodity?

This thread is amazing.

I will be honest, the main thing that I am kind of not ok with, is the fact that a person who used to run RMT sites (that, you know, often involve fun player-friendly stuff like hacking accounts and stealing items) basically profits from the support money PoE gets. So it means that I supported a past RMT business runner (let's assume he isn't anymore) with my cash...

Not a great feeling.

RMT sites always tried to get in touch with devs to have a moledev doing things their way or being openly investors for an unethical partnership.


In Diablo2 there was an exploit called import. It was discovered by a pvpgn(formerly known as Bnetd) dev named onlyer. He sold the exploit for 10k bucks to a chinese RMT seller

Import allowed you to upload charactersaves from open to closed Bnet all it required was a MCPserver connection.

Once the imports hit ebay a hacker named Herzog_Zwei along others did some research and posted a vague version on rpgforums(d2hackersite).

Blizzard implemented a quick fix that changed the savefile structure. Import was fixed.

An USbased seller got into contact with a Blizzard dev and paid the dev to undo the structurechange. Import was possible once again.

The name of the dev and some other details can be found on reddit/d2mods since details leaked after blizz north got disbaned

For some month import was possible again and the USbased seller created tons of 4-6 socket 1.08 uniques, broken stat runewords and so on. The moledev got fired after the second wave of imports hit the marked.

Instead of being white items with broken stats or other lazy edited items the Seller put effort to make the items look more valid and spread the rumor of rolldown/cubefuse.
Examples of those items were 6 socket Wfs/GFs/indestructable eth 300ed claws of quickness/4 socket stormshield/4 socket 1.08 arcaines/Venom Rw with tons of ED and poisondamage and many more.

Aside from negative feedback PP fraud and RMT involvement and that experience from D2 was a major reason AH/RMAH had to go.

PP fraud was used by RMT sites to get rid of undercutting players. Blizzard couldn't prosecute them because they were located in China. Blizzard allowed the sellers to keep their money and paid out of their own pocket.





So here are some hard facts, regarding GGG and their RMT investor.

GGGs share is private meaning they knew what they were doing.

There was a thread about shareholders years ago 2013/2014 but I only noticed it after it got locked and the link removed.

Chris constantly denied there were any dupes in his game yet RMT boards/reddit figured out that the rmted Lightning Coils were all ilevel 74.


The Anticheat is offline, you can check RMT boards suggesting RMT is doing "automated delivery" through bots using simple LoadLibrary and the injected dll appears in the module list, no manual mapping at all.

Chris response is very weak. Example:

We needed more experience regarding toxic players and how to combat them, that's why we hired Pam(Lionel)

There are tons of whoisprotected RMT sites still online(selling PoE items) and China utilizes RMT.

Responses like "I believe" "I think" "I trust" offer no value.


The investor hasn't defended himself because he knows what he will be confronted with-->Connections with X/Y/Z and hard evidence, he won't expose his RMT network competitors leak on purpose.


From the eyes of a regular investor(no background info) GGG doesn't look profitable. They reached max expansion and already had to merge Garena severs(looked unprofitable) to their main servers to the disgust of regular players.

Why would you invest in such a company? You'll need the background info that RMT is indeed profitable in 6-7 digit gain each month. So having influence within the company helps to combat competitors while having a monopole in RMT, while the companies get a share of RMT gains.

Such a collaboration in Europe on a stock listed company would have heavy consequences.


What does it mean for players? Every itemrelated change has to be viewed through the eyes of an RMT seller.

Examples:

Legacy league to sell legacy items without being too obvious. Imagine you could RMT thousands of eternal orbs in nonleague despite them not dropping anymore.

Short term item mechanics of a new league that will be disabled after some time so RMT sites can sell those legacy items.




I finally figured out why I detested that trade simulator more and more.

I play SSF, so RMT stuff just annoys me if I am reading General Chat.

HOWEVER, the design premise of drop rates built around trade, the flat out refusal to ever cater to an offshoot permanent SSF state, the determination to never improve the trade system (argue it you like it or not, irrelevant).......adds to the conspiracy-feeling.

This completely explains why they have never had or planned to make in game trading. Disgusting people.

Meanwhile a friend of mine got permabanned without any evidence he was RMT-ing.
Which means if i want someone from the top people in a league banned i just have to report them, or make an actuall RMT offer on some 3rd party website and get them banned.
Stay classy GGG.