F the labyrinth

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Xavathos wrote:

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Turtledove wrote:

Sorry, Xavathos but your silly implied assertion that labyrinth is optional it nonsense. The point of an arpg is to maximize one's character. At least from my point of view. I came back to PoE in 3.0 after stopping playing. I played PoE for multiple leagues after the the loathsome labyrinth release with the idea of avoiding labyrinth. I am no longer playing that way. If you don't like it then too bad. I play for my enjoyment and your suggestions are worthless and meaningless. I'll play the game the way I want to and anyone telling me that Ascendancy Points is optional is irrelevant. If you don't like me voicing my feedback on this forum then too bad.

BTW, your assertion about ntall1 getting it while I don't appears to be deluded because he seemed to have the exact same philosophy about running the loathsome labyrinth that I have now. Or did you ignore the part about him saying he runs it once per league? Why do you think that I mainly play standard, even during this league? My one character in Abyss league is at level 82 or 83 and I've only found one stinking endgame trial in this pathetic loathsome piece of crap called the labyrinth disaster.

"Brilliant idea" only in the land of the deluded.

Like I said, I'd have suggested this to you, had I not known better.

The Lab remains entirely optional, whether you feel it is or not. It is NOT required to progress and access all other content the game has to offer. It is optional. FACT.

You speak to me of delusion when you would argue a factual statement...

Your both right in the sense there are builds that do not use the last 2 points, BUT there are many like my totem build where half the dps requires it.

It's really build based. I never needed it on my necro build, It just adds clear speed but like I said when half your dps requires it, its limiting to not have it.

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suszterpatt wrote:

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Shovelcut wrote:

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suszterpatt wrote:

Yes. Just let us rejoin the same lab instance at the last completed Izaro phase. If the player left during an Izaro fight, have that fight reset. It's that simple.

So basically make it abusable with the logout macro? Fight not going your way? Just hit the macro and try again. Yeah nty.

1. Considering that Izaro, like just about any bossfight, relies on oneshots to kill people, that wouldn't save you in most cases

2. You'll have to make your way to the fight again, through some traps. Unless you're CI/hybrid or super good at dodging traps, there's a good chance you'll have to use a life flask or two before you get to the fight, but if you cleared the nearby trash mobs, you'll have no way of recharging those flasks like you did the first time around

3. Since the entire fight resets, you're now back at square 1, but possibly with less flask charges

4. If you nearly got smashed by Izaro last time, chances are you'll get smashed again.

5. Lab farmer characters are never at risk of dying to Izaro anyway.

6. Non-lab farmer characters can already hire someone to get them through lab for the ascendancy points. That will still be quicker and more convenient than trying to cheese the fights with instant logout.


So basically, it wouldn't really make the fight easier, but even if we accepted that it did, it wouldn't make a difference to anyone.

At the very least they should let you practice the last fight for no loot. What I would like is giving you the option to ignore the time waster and once your finished just charge you 10c to get the points (nothing else) without running the lab at all.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Your both right in the sense there are builds that do not use the last 2 points, BUT there are many like my totem build where half the dps requires it.

It's really build based. I never needed it on my necro build, It just adds clear speed but like I said when half your dps requires it, its limiting to not have it.

Yes, but once again you fall to the same fallacy as the others when discussing whether or not running the Lab is mandatory. It is irrelevant to the fact that your build may or may not get 99% of its validity from the ascendancy points or not. The Lab is simply not mandatory.

It's worth it, imo, regardless of builds, but my opinion in this regard clearly differs from others.

See the Lab as a going to the gym. Is working out mandatory? It is not. It isn't even liked by some. Some even loath working out. Good thing it's not required of you. You can enjoy the full extent of life without ever having working out a day in your life. You will miss out on some physical attributes, perhaps, the weight of which depending on your build, literally. But you will not live less of a life as a result of your choice, if you choose it.

And therein lies the problem in your mindset. YOU do not think it optional. YOU WANT those rewards, but you hate what you have to do to get them. Opposite you find me, who is willing to go through a challenge, be it one born of difficulty or determination to get to those rewards.

I stand opposed to you not because I don't want to see you happy, but because I would not have you or me get those points for free. If you can't make yourself run a map, because let's face it, that's all the Lab is, a unique map, to get the amount of power the ascendancy points potentially hold, then you're just unworthy of it.

Furthermore it begs the question as to why you play a game such as PoE to begin with, if you are of such a mind? PoE is a game of grind by definition, an uphill struggle from start to finish. Even trading wants to kick your ass, because nothing is allowed to be too easy or too convenient by design. In this respect, the Lab represents the visage of PoE perfectly.

Your actually just wrong that NO build requires it to be viable since some builds never existed till they added the last 2 points. the % that requires it is the only fact in dispute.

If they added 2 more points even more builds would be viable and after they made the game harder to keep it from being boring old builds would lose viability and other would gain it.

This is common sense and pretty much a captain obvious factoid.

But I do agree with your premise that you can play the game fine with even 4 points or 0 with enough money and the right build.

But no one likes losing a testicle and being told its ok because you can still have kids.

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Zalhan2 wrote:

Your actually just wrong that NO build requires it to be viable since some builds never existed till they added the last 2 points. the % that requires it is the only fact in dispute.

If they added 2 more points even more builds would be viable and after they made the game harder to keep it from being boring old builds would lose viability and other would gain it.

This is common sense and pretty much a captain obvious factoid.

But I do agree with your premise that you can play the game fine with even 4 points or 0 with enough money and the right build.

But no one likes losing a testicle and being told its ok because you can still have kids.

So you're saying a build based upon ascendancy points requires ascendancy points? Holy map stash Batman! And you call me captain obvious...

Have you ever even considered the fact that these builds you speak of are created by those who do NOT dislike the Lab? And even if they do, their build would include them still if it wants to be praised as a good guide, simply because it's silly to not include them on the basis of the 4 most rewarding of your 2000 odd maps you run in a league not being "entirely to your liking".

Why you simply refuse to see reason is beyond me, but good luck with such an attitude towards challenges and criticism presented.

I have yet to hear a solid argument from you as to why the Lab should be changed other than "I don't want to eat my veggies".

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Xavathos wrote:

<Zalhan quote here>

I have yet to hear a solid argument from you as to why the Lab should be changed other than "I don't want to eat my veggies".

I really like this metaphor. In fact, it's so good I feel an irresistible urge to come up with more like it.

"I can't believe it's not butter" becomes "Endless pancakes make trees feel self confident"

"Make America Great Again" becomes "Winning at cross country skiing is what hamsters do best"

"Eat your veggies so you'll become big and strong" becomes "Run irritating platform mini-game in an ARPG to define your character"

The first two metaphors above went really well, I think, but something seems off about the third one. I can't seem to get it to work as a metaphor. I wonder why that is.

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EnjoyTheJourney wrote:

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Xavathos wrote:

<Zalhan quote here>

I have yet to hear a solid argument from you as to why the Lab should be changed other than "I don't want to eat my veggies".

I really like this metaphor. In fact, it's so good I feel an irresistible urge to come up with more like it.

"I can't believe it's not butter" becomes "Endless pancakes make trees feel self confident"

"Make America Great Again" becomes "Winning at cross country skiing is what hamsters do best"

"Eat your veggies so you'll become big and strong" becomes "Run irritating platform mini-game in an ARPG to define your character"

The first two metaphors above went really well, I think, but something seems off about the third one. I can't seem to get it to work as a metaphor. I wonder why that is.

Strange. Could be a perspective issue.

Did Uber today by paying someone . Felt good, it was fast, cheap and got rid of that crap without any worries. Worth it!

Could I do it myself solo? Maybe, but why stress over it/risk failing ? If GGG wants to force that crap, I'll pay someone to do it for me.

My friend basically paid me to do lab yesterday since I didn't believe him saying the lab layout was so good even I would enjoy it. It was passable I guess. No gold doors and outdoor areas certainly make it more pleasant.

Got this from a lab chest. Guess I have to like the lab now. Fuck.

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Doomstryver wrote:

My friend basically paid me to do lab yesterday since I didn't believe him saying the lab layout was so good even I would enjoy it. It was passable I guess. No gold doors and outdoor areas certainly make it more pleasant.

Got this from a lab chest. Guess I have to like the lab now. Fuck.

I did it the same day. I was watching a streamer and the entire channel was like WOW they really made it lol today. Somehow I ended up with 2 keys in the final fight and it still wasn't that bad, still hated it.

Lab still sucks. It's boring and paying someone to pay to win feels bad, though I understand why others legally cheat. There are like 4 people willing to do it for free just to get your loot too , it's not expensive just bad design and seems like a cheat to me.

If they didn't have the pay to win feature (which invalidates the eat your veggies argument since your not eating the veggies but tipping someone else to eat them for you) more people would be posting here.